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Because the decentralised ACL implementation (state resolution) relies on power levels as a simple comparator for determining merge conflict resolution. State r

Because the decentralised ACL implementation (state resolution) relies on power levels as a simple comparator for determining merge conflict resolution. State resolution is the academically novel bit of Matrix and hard to get right, and while we can swap it out for role based ACLs in future, this is orthogonal to Spaces. Meanwhile it honestly hasn’t come up as a requirement, even from enterprisey folks, given we push power levels as hard as possible. https://matrix.org/docs/guides/implementing-stateres https://matrix.org/docs/guides/implementing-stateres and https://matrix.org/blog/2020/06/16/matrix-decomposition-an-independent-academic-analysis-of-matrix-state-resolution https://matrix.org/blog/2020/06/16/matrix-decomposition-an-i... give more info on how state res works and why you wouldn’t rush to jump to role based ACLs. It’s nothing whatsoever to do with IRC or chanserv style behaviour, beyond coincidence.

Arathorn 5y ago
I should also add that there are at least two matrix spec change proposals flying around to add role based ACLs, and one of the main reasons for switching spaces to be built on rooms is that they will automatically inherit the ACL model when it lands :)
- anticensor 5y ago
  And neither of those two proposals have figured out how to solve the mess of the conflict resolution.
  - Arathorn 5y ago
    Solving conflict resolution should be doable - it's just that it's literally the most critical and important bit of the entire Matrix ecosystem, and any changes have to be done very deliberately and carefully, ideally with formal proofs that it's not going to break stuff. It's the equivalent of switching out Git's merge algorithm (https://github.com/git/git/blob/master/Documentation/technical/trivial-merge.txt https://github.com/git/git/blob/master/Documentation/technic...) or switching out for a new kernel scheduler implementation. Any bugs or thinkos there mean that the whole fabric falls apart, hence wanting to consider it separately to Spaces.
StavrosK 5y ago
Great response, thanks!

Arathorn 5y ago

I should also add that there are at least two matrix spec change proposals flying around to add role based ACLs, and one of the main reasons for switching spaces to be built on rooms is that they will automatically inherit the ACL model when it lands :)

anticensor 5y ago
And neither of those two proposals have figured out how to solve the mess of the conflict resolution.
- Arathorn 5y ago
  Solving conflict resolution should be doable - it's just that it's literally the most critical and important bit of the entire Matrix ecosystem, and any changes have to be done very deliberately and carefully, ideally with formal proofs that it's not going to break stuff. It's the equivalent of switching out Git's merge algorithm (https://github.com/git/git/blob/master/Documentation/technical/trivial-merge.txt https://github.com/git/git/blob/master/Documentation/technic...) or switching out for a new kernel scheduler implementation. Any bugs or thinkos there mean that the whole fabric falls apart, hence wanting to consider it separately to Spaces.

StavrosK 5y ago

Great response, thanks!