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I think the author is talking about pretty large, well-known companies (e.g., FAANG -- see his first point). Many people applying to these well-known companies

I think the author is talking about pretty large, well-known companies (e.g., FAANG -- see his first point). Many people applying to these well-known companies are auto-filtered by resume software, which artificially decreases supply. Small and mid-size companies have a different problem: people haven't heard of them and don't know to apply. My company is in this situation. We have a good culture, I think, and pay very well but people don't know about us or don't think of us as a "tech" company, even though we do quite a bit of innovative software development.

dntrkv 5y ago
Except none of his points apply to FAANG companies either. >A bad interview is when you ask them the definition of some specific thing in some specific framework like “Tell me what a closure in javascript is.” then treat them like they’re stupid if they don’t know. FAANG companies do not interview like this. I've done interviews with most of them twice in the last 5 years and all questions are the typical algo stuff. Then his whole rant about credentials... I am a self-taught dev with no degree, none of my interviewers ever cared about that. Every interview is about whether or not you can solve the algo question.
tracer4201 5y ago
Out of curiosity what do you define as being paid well? What country and region or state and what’s the compensation? I had a recruiter try to lure me for a $130K “senior” role on the east coast in the US. I earn several times that.
- JMTQp8lwXL 5y ago
  I was recently contacted about a "principal" role at $125k. I did not proceed.
- JAlexoid 5y ago
  NYC senior engineers typically earn $150k-$250k in salary. Unless you want to be a lifeless drone for a HFT fund. But then living expenses aren't that high in NYC, compared to Bay area.
  - tracer4201 5y ago
    Personally, I’d happily accept being a lifeless drone, at least for a few years. Save the extra income and invest it. Reap the dividends. Having said that, I don’t know how bad those roles actually are. Obviously, it’s not worth it if it affects your mental health… and unfortunately yeah, that is an issue working in this field.
    - JAlexoid 5y ago
      Nope. You don't. The difference between both taxes and the "next in line" isn't large enough. Hedge funds pay as much as Google/Facebook, but work and life balance at SV companies is much better. Compare my two offers from a few years ago - well known hedge fund in CT vs a food delivery tech company. Well known hedge fund paid $250k+50k bonus for expected minimum 50hour weeks and 20 days of vacation time. Food delivery company offered $170k+200k in stock over 4 years for 6 hour work days in a relaxed environment and unlimited PTO. It's at the point that it's not worth the money. Sure it's about $3k extra monthly income.... and if you're not burdened with student debt, it's not a game changer.
      - anonymous_HFT 5y ago
        maybe try going to actual top firms: JS, HRT $400k new grad TC, Free food, 40 hour work weeks, great company culture (many events) Facebook this year had many intern events trying to convince people that FB > Quant, evidently the brain drain is there
        hackerfromthefu 5y ago
        I'm considering making the next move in my career, can you expand on the top firms and by full name so I can find them? Much appreciated :)
        gstipi 5y ago
        I assume they were referring to Jane Street and Hudson River Trading - wishing you every success with your next career move!
MattGaiser 5y ago
Is this auto filtering happening at the senior level for FAANG? Amazon keeps reaching out to me (a junior who already failed one of their interviews) on LinkedIn. Google did as well at one point. If I am somehow worth personal attention as a not terribly impressively pedigreed and inexperienced developer, are they really dumping seniors through crappy filtering software and missing them there?
- ArnoVW 5y ago
  The stakes are lower. As a CTO (hypothetically) I get to hire 4 junior devs, 2 senior, and 1 architect. Hire the wrong junior? No biggy, he'll be less effecient but we may yet turn him around. Anyway, I get three more tries. Anyway, he'll leave after 2 years. They always do. Hire the wrong architect? I'm stuck with him, for a very long time. Moreover, I now have the wrong guy for a high-impact job. And one that is very visible. So you betcha I'm going to be much more picky, the more senior the job becomes.
creddit 5y ago
> I think the author is talking about pretty large, well-known companies (e.g., FAANG -- see his first point). Except almost nothing outside of some amount of resume filtering fits his points. Seriously, go to levels.fyi and look at the pay of the FANGs (ex. Amazon). You think his bad pay point is a problem for them?
opportune 5y ago
Hiring at these companies is very different from the bad examples described here, except for the indexing on degrees (if you don't have extensive experience you're not getting hired without a degree). They don't test trivia and don't typically look for "X years experience with Y framework". I remember seeing that in lots of smaller, lower paying companies' job postings on websites like Indeed but I've never seen that at a big bay area tech company unless it's something sufficiently broad like "infrastructure" or "frontend" The difference is that big tech companies aren't meant to be applied to over the internet. Seriously, it's like throwing your resume into a black hole. Referrals are the same way, honestly. The only good way to get hired is to get a recruiter to message you on Linkedin. I have never got an interview at these companies from applying on their websites and have made it to the first round of interviews every time if I was contacted by a recruiter. And because of that, it should be no surprise that nobody is scouring the internet to find your company and send in an application on your company's website. Everybody has been conditioned for that to essentially not work. Even though it's expensive you really should be paying third or even first party recruiters.
- moneywoes 5y ago
  Any suggestions for getting a recruiter to message you?
  - JAlexoid 5y ago
    Have a good and relevant linkedin profile. Post on Hired.

dntrkv 5y ago

Except none of his points apply to FAANG companies either. >A bad interview is when you ask them the definition of some specific thing in some specific framework like “Tell me what a closure in javascript is.” then treat them like they’re stupid if they don’t know. FAANG companies do not interview like this. I've done interviews with most of them twice in the last 5 years and all questions are the typical algo stuff. Then his whole rant about credentials... I am a self-taught dev with no degree, none of my interviewers ever cared about that. Every interview is about whether or not you can solve the algo question.

tracer4201 5y ago

Out of curiosity what do you define as being paid well? What country and region or state and what’s the compensation? I had a recruiter try to lure me for a $130K “senior” role on the east coast in the US. I earn several times that.

JMTQp8lwXL 5y ago
I was recently contacted about a "principal" role at $125k. I did not proceed.
JAlexoid 5y ago
NYC senior engineers typically earn $150k-$250k in salary. Unless you want to be a lifeless drone for a HFT fund. But then living expenses aren't that high in NYC, compared to Bay area.
- tracer4201 5y ago
  Personally, I’d happily accept being a lifeless drone, at least for a few years. Save the extra income and invest it. Reap the dividends. Having said that, I don’t know how bad those roles actually are. Obviously, it’s not worth it if it affects your mental health… and unfortunately yeah, that is an issue working in this field.
  - JAlexoid 5y ago
    Nope. You don't. The difference between both taxes and the "next in line" isn't large enough. Hedge funds pay as much as Google/Facebook, but work and life balance at SV companies is much better. Compare my two offers from a few years ago - well known hedge fund in CT vs a food delivery tech company. Well known hedge fund paid $250k+50k bonus for expected minimum 50hour weeks and 20 days of vacation time. Food delivery company offered $170k+200k in stock over 4 years for 6 hour work days in a relaxed environment and unlimited PTO. It's at the point that it's not worth the money. Sure it's about $3k extra monthly income.... and if you're not burdened with student debt, it's not a game changer.
    - anonymous_HFT 5y ago
      maybe try going to actual top firms: JS, HRT $400k new grad TC, Free food, 40 hour work weeks, great company culture (many events) Facebook this year had many intern events trying to convince people that FB > Quant, evidently the brain drain is there
      - hackerfromthefu 5y ago
        I'm considering making the next move in my career, can you expand on the top firms and by full name so I can find them? Much appreciated :)
        gstipi 5y ago
        I assume they were referring to Jane Street and Hudson River Trading - wishing you every success with your next career move!

MattGaiser 5y ago

Is this auto filtering happening at the senior level for FAANG? Amazon keeps reaching out to me (a junior who already failed one of their interviews) on LinkedIn. Google did as well at one point. If I am somehow worth personal attention as a not terribly impressively pedigreed and inexperienced developer, are they really dumping seniors through crappy filtering software and missing them there?

ArnoVW 5y ago
The stakes are lower. As a CTO (hypothetically) I get to hire 4 junior devs, 2 senior, and 1 architect. Hire the wrong junior? No biggy, he'll be less effecient but we may yet turn him around. Anyway, I get three more tries. Anyway, he'll leave after 2 years. They always do. Hire the wrong architect? I'm stuck with him, for a very long time. Moreover, I now have the wrong guy for a high-impact job. And one that is very visible. So you betcha I'm going to be much more picky, the more senior the job becomes.

creddit 5y ago

> I think the author is talking about pretty large, well-known companies (e.g., FAANG -- see his first point). Except almost nothing outside of some amount of resume filtering fits his points. Seriously, go to levels.fyi and look at the pay of the FANGs (ex. Amazon). You think his bad pay point is a problem for them?

opportune 5y ago

Hiring at these companies is very different from the bad examples described here, except for the indexing on degrees (if you don't have extensive experience you're not getting hired without a degree). They don't test trivia and don't typically look for "X years experience with Y framework". I remember seeing that in lots of smaller, lower paying companies' job postings on websites like Indeed but I've never seen that at a big bay area tech company unless it's something sufficiently broad like "infrastructure" or "frontend" The difference is that big tech companies aren't meant to be applied to over the internet. Seriously, it's like throwing your resume into a black hole. Referrals are the same way, honestly. The only good way to get hired is to get a recruiter to message you on Linkedin. I have never got an interview at these companies from applying on their websites and have made it to the first round of interviews every time if I was contacted by a recruiter. And because of that, it should be no surprise that nobody is scouring the internet to find your company and send in an application on your company's website. Everybody has been conditioned for that to essentially not work. Even though it's expensive you really should be paying third or even first party recruiters.

moneywoes 5y ago
Any suggestions for getting a recruiter to message you?
- JAlexoid 5y ago
  Have a good and relevant linkedin profile. Post on Hired.