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Gruber is at his worst in this piece. First, as he notes, this happens a LOT (link, but not explicity attribution). And as he even notes, he does it himself -

Gruber is at his worst in this piece. First, as he notes, this happens a LOT (link, but not explicity attribution). And as he even notes, he does it himself -- and he does it regularly. The difference between him and Ina? Apparently, Ina's readers don't follow links (how does Gruber know that -- he doesn't). And as he notes, many sites do far worse -- no link, no attribution. But apparently this isn't about the crime so much as the criminal (allthingsd). And of course he conveniently picks an Apple story to become self-righteous. I could have found hundreds of non-Apple stories over the past five years where this happened. But clearly none of them are important. Only Apple writers count? He then goes on and claims that the correction was even wrong: “Enthusiast site” is pejorative. Enthusiast implies that MacStories is produced by zealous hobbyists. This is the oddest read of that term I've ever seen. When people say it is an "Apple enthusiast site", that means it is a site read by Apple enthusiasts. And MacStories is that. As is DaringFireball. Engadget is a gadget enthusiast site. Sports Illustrated is a magazine for sports enthusiasts. There's nothing pejorative about it. A "fanboi" site, sure that would be pejorative, but not this. And Gruber, effectively put his attack dogs on Ina, and for what, for not explicitly calling out the name of this site. For a while her comments were filled with hateful attacks against her as a person, and many saying they had come from Gruber's site. They were removed, but they were the types of personal attacks you'd expect from a 1960s civil rights protest, but not because someone didn't add explicit attribution (because clearly running the story with a web link isn't enough). One of his last lines is this, "Defensiveness is never flattering." Gruber should have considered starting with that line.

CyberMonk 15y ago
If you think a Linked List Item (on DF) is the same as a reference to a source article contained within an article that itself regurgitates wholesale the content of the linked piece, then you just don't get it.
jrwoodruff 15y ago
I kind of, sort of maybe see Gruber's point, but wow. Talk about making a mountain of a mole hill. I have to agree with you. Why not pick on CNET, who had NO attribution at all? AllThingsD linked to the damn site. They pushed traffic and they gave credit. Sounds fair to me. I'd like to hear what Mr. Viticci has to say about the whole thing. If nothing else, Gruber is certainly making that guy's name known.
candeira 15y ago
As a journalist who has ben taught to always attribute quotations and sources, I agree with Gruber. Ina's attribution to "an enthusiast site" is disingenuous, like those non-apology apologies that say "I am sorry you felt insulted" instead of "I am sorry I insulted you". His criticism of Fried for referencing the URL instead of the name of the blog is also spot on. Gruber also is right to make a distinction between writing that pretty much "consume(s) the story", and for that reason requires full attribution, as it will be read by many as a piece of text with no links, and his own teasers that give nothing away but a link to the real story, so attribution is less important. His "order of preference" listing of how to give attribution is an object lesson in digital journalism. I have forwarded this piece to my friends who teach in J-schools.
- kenjackson 15y ago
  No the real lesson is don't do stories sourced by Apple fan sites. This was a great example of a story that wasn't worth covering to begin with, and Apple zealots will tear into you for not showing proper deference to the Apple gods. The one thing the tech industry could do without are so many pointless Apple stories.
  - candeira 15y ago
    I can agree with that. They could write less Apple stories. But if they do write Apple stories, they should recognise the people whose work they draw from as colleagues in journalism, not dismiss them as "enthusiasts".
r00fus 15y ago
There is a clear difference between Gruber and a "news site" which embeds links. I follow Gruber on RSS, and 90% of the feed items, clicking on the RSS header takes me directly to the attributed article. No landing page with ads or ability to mis-attribute the target. Very few other feeds behave this way.

CyberMonk 15y ago

If you think a Linked List Item (on DF) is the same as a reference to a source article contained within an article that itself regurgitates wholesale the content of the linked piece, then you just don't get it.

jrwoodruff 15y ago

I kind of, sort of maybe see Gruber's point, but wow. Talk about making a mountain of a mole hill. I have to agree with you. Why not pick on CNET, who had NO attribution at all? AllThingsD linked to the damn site. They pushed traffic and they gave credit. Sounds fair to me. I'd like to hear what Mr. Viticci has to say about the whole thing. If nothing else, Gruber is certainly making that guy's name known.

candeira 15y ago

As a journalist who has ben taught to always attribute quotations and sources, I agree with Gruber. Ina's attribution to "an enthusiast site" is disingenuous, like those non-apology apologies that say "I am sorry you felt insulted" instead of "I am sorry I insulted you". His criticism of Fried for referencing the URL instead of the name of the blog is also spot on. Gruber also is right to make a distinction between writing that pretty much "consume(s) the story", and for that reason requires full attribution, as it will be read by many as a piece of text with no links, and his own teasers that give nothing away but a link to the real story, so attribution is less important. His "order of preference" listing of how to give attribution is an object lesson in digital journalism. I have forwarded this piece to my friends who teach in J-schools.

kenjackson 15y ago
No the real lesson is don't do stories sourced by Apple fan sites. This was a great example of a story that wasn't worth covering to begin with, and Apple zealots will tear into you for not showing proper deference to the Apple gods. The one thing the tech industry could do without are so many pointless Apple stories.
- candeira 15y ago
  I can agree with that. They could write less Apple stories. But if they do write Apple stories, they should recognise the people whose work they draw from as colleagues in journalism, not dismiss them as "enthusiasts".

r00fus 15y ago

There is a clear difference between Gruber and a "news site" which embeds links. I follow Gruber on RSS, and 90% of the feed items, clicking on the RSS header takes me directly to the attributed article. No landing page with ads or ability to mis-attribute the target. Very few other feeds behave this way.