6 ms·

I just personally don't think it's funny because it's depressing to think about the people who actually think this way. I'd rather not give it any air at all. L

I just personally don't think it's funny because it's depressing to think about the people who actually think this way. I'd rather not give it any air at all. Like I don't think it's funny to dunk on really, and I think those people are generally unwell so it's really punching down which is not something I think is good or funny. My opinion on this doesn't actually matter to anyone who isn't me, so whatever I guess, just stating it, same as anyone else here. However in the context of the GP, they're 100% correct in the sense that this isn't appropriate for the workplace. So it's kind of a shame that it's actually technically very good/useful. The author is free to do whatever they want. I'm not asking them to change, but it's definitely a shame to tie this otherwise good code to this meme.

graderjs 5y ago
The only shame I think is tying the work, and yourself, to an interpretation of the meme, something you make it mean, that you dislike, and then saying someone else's work is lessened because you've interpreted it in those ways that you judge bad. Maybe that meaning wasn't in the mind of the creator at all. Or maybe the people who you believe think a certain way actually feel another way about it. Whatever the "meme trope" or specific "meme instance" creator intended it to mean (if anything), that doesn't mean that's the "only" meaning a thing can have. It might mean one thing to some person or group and something to you. To me it's funny that they think associating negative traits with "virgin" is a valid comparison. To me, it's obviously not but so laughable that while the jokes the people are making about coding, to me, are funny, the ways they frame it, is funny for being so immature.. But it's humour, I don't want to "explain" it. Maybe they use this meme with irony, appropriate the "chad-virgin" dichotomy, in a satirical way, as they think it's false. Seriously, who cares? Who cares what the creator made it mean, in the basic sense. Because you have the power to interpret it your way. Why limit your joy by thinking, someone somewhere might see this in a way they dislike, therefore I cannot enjoy it. I know it's not easy, because you can be aware of how other people might take it, but that doesn't mean you have to align with that. Otherwise the world is this network where everyone's watching everyone else for "heretical behavior or thought" and trying to bizarrely punish that, just because they can't make a good boundary between their thoughts and feelings, and everyone else's. Everyone can make it mean what they want. It's a subtle point, easy to nod at but hard to actually grok what that means. You're judging this work, and this meme based on what you're making it mean, based on how you're choosing to interpret what you believe some other group of people, who you believe it's connected to, makes it mean. You're hostage to what you think are the beliefs of some other group. I don't think you're crazy, but I think that idea is crazy, because you're free to make it mean what you want. It's pretty common nowadays tho I think. Again saying it's not appropriate to the workplace is a whole other set of relative value judgments and interpretations. Because the word "virgin" is included and maybe someone can connect this meme to some group they're afraid of or they judge as bad, therefore a workplace is unable to handle that? I think that says something about the toxic/unworkable fragility of workplaces. We should be robust enough to be able to consider these cultural artefacts without creating danger or toxicity. If we cannot consider something, we're unable to really reflect on that, and I believe the workplace culture can be at risk of emanating those things it will not allow itself to really engage with or see. To be it's an obvious but also subtle point. We won't allow ourselves to look at a sort of implicit bias that might be present somehow in one interpretation of a meme? Then we also won't see it in the workplace. And "everything's fine" when really a workplace culture is toxic. Introspection and criticism can be shielded behind the arbitrary "area denial" system of "inappropriate for workplace". There's clearly lines (i.e, people just casually sharing porn in a non-porn-industry workplace, totally uncool, right? because that's some private intimate activity related thing that has nothing to do with sort of workplace relationships)...but sharing memes and humour? That's not ok? I've noticed European commenters say before that American workplaces are too afraid of themselves. I don't know if you're view comes from that basis or not, and while it's subtle I believe these sorts of dynamics (of workplaces creating traits they censor from consideration) operate. I think the notion that they simply must be censored from the workplace is false, and relates to that bad idea of ideological purity I was talking about. Our workplace should be robust enough to view the thing in the frame we choose, not hostage to the frame we are "afraid to name".
- hellotomyrars 5y ago
  I appreciate your long and thought-out responses, truly I do. However it seems like we're partially talking past each other so hopefully I can fully clarify. You've pretty clearly stated how you feel in no uncertain terms. I understand that and I accept that. I have clearly stated how I feel. My thoughts/feelings are my own, and I don't need to radically change the way I think or view the world because I'm being held under some yoke of some imposed belief or way of thinking. We disagree. That's fine. It's obviously not going to change but please don't proceed with this idea that I just don't "get it". The work is intrinsically tied to the meme. That is how I feel about the meme. Authorial intent, whatever it may be, isn't particularly relevant in criticism beyond the subjective interpretation of whether they achieved it or not. I don't know and neither do you as neither of are the author and I don't see them spelling it out. I'm sure they mean it as a light-hearted joke, but I still disagree with the idea that it is funny. I'm not here to change (and am certainly not able to change) what does or doesn't fly in the offices of Corporate America. Culture vary (as do opinions as previously stated), but even if you think this is funny I wouldn't recommend you use it or share it around in the office for due to the potential consequences of the implications and language it contains. Whether that is good or bad morally or for our society or culture is also a matter of opinion and beside the point. Personally I find a lot of humor in other things that I don't think are appropriate for the workplace or a professional setting. I don't feel restrained under some yoke of society, there is just a time and place for certain things. People very naturally change mannerisms and ways of speaking to tailor them to whoever is on the receiving end. There is a pretty obvious and the reason is pretty simple. I guess if you really want to push it all the way out sure, I'm crushed under the yoke of caring about other people and having empathy. I guess I'm okay with that. But I'm not a hostage to what I think someone else beliefs are. I'm a hostage to my own, which include generally trying not to be an asshole. Make of that what you will, but I am my own person. I'm not missing some greater truth or liberated way of thinking. You're quite literally also evaluating things based on a relative set of value judgements and interpretations the same way I am, they're just the ones you have and ours are different. As previously stated, I'm not asking/imploring/demanding the author to change anything. I'm just sharing how I feel about it.
  - 5y ago

graderjs 5y ago

The only shame I think is tying the work, and yourself, to an interpretation of the meme, something you make it mean, that you dislike, and then saying someone else's work is lessened because you've interpreted it in those ways that you judge bad. Maybe that meaning wasn't in the mind of the creator at all. Or maybe the people who you believe think a certain way actually feel another way about it. Whatever the "meme trope" or specific "meme instance" creator intended it to mean (if anything), that doesn't mean that's the "only" meaning a thing can have. It might mean one thing to some person or group and something to you. To me it's funny that they think associating negative traits with "virgin" is a valid comparison. To me, it's obviously not but so laughable that while the jokes the people are making about coding, to me, are funny, the ways they frame it, is funny for being so immature.. But it's humour, I don't want to "explain" it. Maybe they use this meme with irony, appropriate the "chad-virgin" dichotomy, in a satirical way, as they think it's false. Seriously, who cares? Who cares what the creator made it mean, in the basic sense. Because you have the power to interpret it your way. Why limit your joy by thinking, someone somewhere might see this in a way they dislike, therefore I cannot enjoy it. I know it's not easy, because you can be aware of how other people might take it, but that doesn't mean you have to align with that. Otherwise the world is this network where everyone's watching everyone else for "heretical behavior or thought" and trying to bizarrely punish that, just because they can't make a good boundary between their thoughts and feelings, and everyone else's. Everyone can make it mean what they want. It's a subtle point, easy to nod at but hard to actually grok what that means. You're judging this work, and this meme based on what you're making it mean, based on how you're choosing to interpret what you believe some other group of people, who you believe it's connected to, makes it mean. You're hostage to what you think are the beliefs of some other group. I don't think you're crazy, but I think that idea is crazy, because you're free to make it mean what you want. It's pretty common nowadays tho I think. Again saying it's not appropriate to the workplace is a whole other set of relative value judgments and interpretations. Because the word "virgin" is included and maybe someone can connect this meme to some group they're afraid of or they judge as bad, therefore a workplace is unable to handle that? I think that says something about the toxic/unworkable fragility of workplaces. We should be robust enough to be able to consider these cultural artefacts without creating danger or toxicity. If we cannot consider something, we're unable to really reflect on that, and I believe the workplace culture can be at risk of emanating those things it will not allow itself to really engage with or see. To be it's an obvious but also subtle point. We won't allow ourselves to look at a sort of implicit bias that might be present somehow in one interpretation of a meme? Then we also won't see it in the workplace. And "everything's fine" when really a workplace culture is toxic. Introspection and criticism can be shielded behind the arbitrary "area denial" system of "inappropriate for workplace". There's clearly lines (i.e, people just casually sharing porn in a non-porn-industry workplace, totally uncool, right? because that's some private intimate activity related thing that has nothing to do with sort of workplace relationships)...but sharing memes and humour? That's not ok? I've noticed European commenters say before that American workplaces are too afraid of themselves. I don't know if you're view comes from that basis or not, and while it's subtle I believe these sorts of dynamics (of workplaces creating traits they censor from consideration) operate. I think the notion that they simply must be censored from the workplace is false, and relates to that bad idea of ideological purity I was talking about. Our workplace should be robust enough to view the thing in the frame we choose, not hostage to the frame we are "afraid to name".

hellotomyrars 5y ago
I appreciate your long and thought-out responses, truly I do. However it seems like we're partially talking past each other so hopefully I can fully clarify. You've pretty clearly stated how you feel in no uncertain terms. I understand that and I accept that. I have clearly stated how I feel. My thoughts/feelings are my own, and I don't need to radically change the way I think or view the world because I'm being held under some yoke of some imposed belief or way of thinking. We disagree. That's fine. It's obviously not going to change but please don't proceed with this idea that I just don't "get it". The work is intrinsically tied to the meme. That is how I feel about the meme. Authorial intent, whatever it may be, isn't particularly relevant in criticism beyond the subjective interpretation of whether they achieved it or not. I don't know and neither do you as neither of are the author and I don't see them spelling it out. I'm sure they mean it as a light-hearted joke, but I still disagree with the idea that it is funny. I'm not here to change (and am certainly not able to change) what does or doesn't fly in the offices of Corporate America. Culture vary (as do opinions as previously stated), but even if you think this is funny I wouldn't recommend you use it or share it around in the office for due to the potential consequences of the implications and language it contains. Whether that is good or bad morally or for our society or culture is also a matter of opinion and beside the point. Personally I find a lot of humor in other things that I don't think are appropriate for the workplace or a professional setting. I don't feel restrained under some yoke of society, there is just a time and place for certain things. People very naturally change mannerisms and ways of speaking to tailor them to whoever is on the receiving end. There is a pretty obvious and the reason is pretty simple. I guess if you really want to push it all the way out sure, I'm crushed under the yoke of caring about other people and having empathy. I guess I'm okay with that. But I'm not a hostage to what I think someone else beliefs are. I'm a hostage to my own, which include generally trying not to be an asshole. Make of that what you will, but I am my own person. I'm not missing some greater truth or liberated way of thinking. You're quite literally also evaluating things based on a relative set of value judgements and interpretations the same way I am, they're just the ones you have and ours are different. As previously stated, I'm not asking/imploring/demanding the author to change anything. I'm just sharing how I feel about it.
- 5y ago