14 ms·

Researchers, lawmakers want Facebook's mental health research

388 points by tareqak 5y ago

xyzelement 5y ago
In 2021, it's hard to argue that any use of social media (and to a large extent, allowing technology to permeate your daily life) is desirable, and quite easy to argue that it's to your detriment. Funny, a bunch of years ago I'd look at groups like the Amish or religious Jews, whose ways naturally kept them out of these trends - as somewhat backwards, and missing out. But now it seems like their ways shield and protect them from these things in a way that may soon be the envy of most others.
polynomial 5y ago
Proving that Facebook "causes" depression seems like a pretty high bar. Showing that Facebook contributes to or exacerbates an underlying propensity for depression seems to have strong support in the current research. The more interesting question is how does Facebook amplify this as an underlying tendency of social media in general (or even what we euphemistically refer to as "being online")? Who's more depressed, Facebook users or Twitter users? Why is that?
julienb_sea 5y ago
This article discusses correlational evidence. The basis for causation is speculative at best, and there is a long list of cofounding factors. The side effects of attempting to bar social media usage by teens might further amplify the problem, driving them away from carefully moderated platforms.
- bseidensticker 5y ago
  Are you calling Facebook "carefully moderated"?
  - julienb_sea 5y ago
    I certainly am calling Facebook and other mainstream social media more carefully moderated than off-the-beaten-path social networks which glorify anorexia, self-harm and other disorders.
    - bitexploder 5y ago
      Guess it depends on what you want moderated. I don’t consider Facebook very well moderated. They moderate what helps them sell ads and leave the rest of their sewer alone.
    - munk-a 5y ago
      These are very serious issues and I don't in any way mean to minimize them but, honestly, nazis and anti-vaxxers are legion on facebook. These groups both pose serious societal threats especially in the middle of a pandemic.
    - gerdesj 5y ago
      Your very words: "off-the-beaten-path" describes the difference between FB and ... them. FB does seem to have a moderation system of sorts but it cannot possibly cope with the tsunami of incoming content. FB cannot be considered moderated in any meaningful way unless FB employs a significant proportion of the world's population. So, I do not agree with you that FB effectively moderate their forum/network. I don't care about other forums/networks - that's whataboutery. I assert that FB routinely allows: misogyny, misandry, racism and all other forms of hate speech to permeate their network without effective detection, identification and control of such. Call me out.
      - lostlogin 5y ago
        They have fractionally more moderation after a white nationalist committed the Christchurch massacre. FB remained silent for two weeks in the aftermath then contributed the below (which doesn’t seem to actually name any changes). There was a strongly negative reaction here on HN when ISPs started blocking access to the killer’s live stream. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/facebook-chief-operating-officer-sheryl-sandbergs-letter-to-new-zealand/UAPCQMTI645ICB734DKQW25FQQ/ https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/facebook-chief-operating...
- xenihn 5y ago
  Moderation is actually the problem. The internet was a better place for everyone when it was just webrings, usenet, and goatse.
  - kazinator 5y ago
    The internet was a better place when it didn't have all those people that require moderation.
  - guerrilla 5y ago
    I think we only feel and think this way because that wss prior to a wider and more gradual Eternal September. I don't think we can go back at this point.
    - munk-a 5y ago
      I'd actually attribute that to the technical inaccessibility of the internet meaning that, while not everyone on the internet at that point was smart, they were almost all curious about new things. The user base of the early internet was basically self-selected to be quite full of skeptics.
      - wutbrodo 5y ago
        Yup, you can see this effect all the way to the 2010s, before which "Internet kid" was practically a subculture (or group of subcultures). Once everybody arrived on Facebook, the Internet became an almost-universal social phenomenon. This is cool in its own way, but it also means that "internet people" converges rapidly to "people".
  - asddubs 5y ago
    i think size is actually the problem. smaller moderated communities are way better than facebook or unmoderated shitholes
- PragmaticPulp 5y ago
  Screen time in general is correlated with depression ( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5574844/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5574844/ ), so it shouldn't be surprising that specific screen time activities are correlated with depression. It's popular to demonize Facebook, but the reality is that sedentary activities in general are highly correlated with depressive symptoms. This goes both ways: Being sedentary instead of active is unhealthy and can exacerbate depression, and being depressed can exacerbate sedentary behavior. Facebook is just one example of a sedentary activity, but watching TV and using a computer for leisure are also highly correlated with depression. It's entirely possible that Facebook has some unique properties that make it worse than other sedentary time-wasting activities, but we need to be honest that it might simply be equivalent to other sedentary screen time activities in this regard. Without actual data, we're just guessing and projecting our feelings about Facebook onto correlation studies.
- acituan 5y ago
  > This article discusses correlational evidence. The basis for causation is speculative at best, and there is a long list of cofounding factors. If you had a well formed hypothesis before conducting a correlational study, and the outcome supported your hypothesis, it is not "just speculative causation" anymore. In fact, short of human experimentation, that is as good of a data as we could ever get. > The side effects of attempting to bar social media usage by teens might further amplify the problem, driving them away from carefully moderated platforms. Is there any data, even correlational, for this particular speculation?
galonk 5y ago
Facebook is the new tobacco industry.
- cryptoz 5y ago
  The new tobacco industry...of decades ago. A long time ago we banned advertising smoking to children (or at least, tried to) but the beforetimes of that decision were rough. Kids commercials for smoking, toy cigarettes, etc. Facebook is actively marketing to youth today just like tobacco did decades ago, indeed. It's a great analogy because it also works well for adults: we're free to use the product/service, we have our freedom! Even if it slowly (or quickly) kills us.
  - a3n 5y ago
    When I was a kid in the sixties I got chock-like candy cigarettes in my Christmas stocking, and for Halloween. I remember some were a bit powdery and you could blow on them and simulate smoke.
    - adolph 5y ago
      Those were the best! Chalky just like Tums https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candy_cigarette https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candy_cigarette
- version_five 5y ago
  I'd say more generally that the online advertising (or attention, if you like) industry has massive negative externalities that they are trying to downplay and not take responsibility for.
  - goodlinks 5y ago
    Imho advertising is a meme that is at odds with humanity (meme as in the original definition). People worry about ai operating in software, this is an ai that has been running in the collective wetware of humans for some time that is significantly hindering us.
scotuswroteus 5y ago
double negative headlines suck
thoughtstheseus 5y ago
Why isn’t the mental health of people using its platform a priority for Facebook?
- yumraj 5y ago
  Because its revenues are dependent on users being addicted to its service. Your question is akin to asking why are crack dealers not worried about the health of their customers.
  - munk-a 5y ago
    Well crack dealers all want their customers to be immortal customers - but they'd prefer it if their customers were customers for longer compared to alive for longer.
    - yumraj 5y ago
      It’s not about longevity, it’s about LTV. If the consumption, and hence value, is high, the LTV can be maximized even if the lifetime is low.
  - goldcd 5y ago
    But you could apply that to any business "They sell tasty food, to keep them eating it" or "They mow the green to keep them golfing on it" What business can you possibly think of tha manages to succeed without making their consumers want to consume?
- renewiltord 5y ago
  Well, simply because it doesn’t involve itself in it. For instance, one might well ask “Why does the Forestry department not care about the mental health of visitors?” They don’t, except incidentally, because they have an orthogonal pursuit - that of the preservation, maintenance, and accessibility of our forests.
- standardUser 5y ago
  I have never heard of a profit-seeking enterprise that has considered making mental health a priority and would never, ever, EVER expect one to. Or am I just missing the snarkiness of this comment?
ipnon 5y ago
Note that Facebook does not have the choice to agree. To do so would be to open Facebook to unimaginable legal liability. So Facebook's opinion in the matter is moot. There are practically no inputs to this function that will change its behavior.
- oh_sigh 5y ago
  How so? Isn't there a link to types of alcohol use and depression(and cancer, and diminished mental capacity, and early death)? It's not like alcohol companies are being sued out of existence. Realistically I think that it just so happens that the people who would work at facebook are the people who naturally don't believe that facebook is a force of badness in the world because their worldview already aligned with facebook before they joined.
  - GavinMcG 5y ago
    Companies are allowed to provide dangerous products. It's just that they can't do so without warning people and (potentially) without changing designs or taking other measures to protect people from the harm, unless the danger is already common knowledge.
    - oh_sigh 5y ago
      Alcohol labels don't warn people about increased odds of colorectal, liver, or esophageal cancer....at least any of the labels I've read. All they say is don't operate machinery and don't drink it while pregnant.
    - munk-a 5y ago
      Well - it depends on the product. Do recall that until recently MJ was illegal across the board and the US Federal Government is still against legality. It's also illegal to own a tank. Honestly, companies are prohibited from selling dangerous products unless there is some reason they are viewed as being dangerous but of more value being legal than illegal. While libertarianism is rife in America - there is no inherent right to trade in dangerous products. If I decided to sell needles full of deadly poison at my store - even if very clearly labeled and even if I sat you down for a twenty minute presentation before each sale occurred - it's quite likely I'd be shut down.
1vuio0pswjnm7 5y ago
[deleted]
- munk-a 5y ago
  I agree with this comment 100% - please increase the value of my facebook shares.
tunesmith 5y ago
Has there been any further detail on what about social media is linked to depression? For instance, with Facebook, is it more because of the ads? Or is it more because of the engagement algorithms? Or, would it happen even if Facebook were just a reverse-chronological feed, populated only by your chosen friends, with zero advertising?
- sneak 5y ago
  > Or, would it happen even if Facebook were just a reverse-chronological feed, populated only by your chosen friends, with zero advertising? We never heard about RSS feed readers causing depression, except when Google cancelled the most popular one. It's possible that having all of your friendship interactions being quietly censored and reorganized to financially benefit a giant multinational is actually the depressing thing. Delete your Facebook, Instagram, and WhatsApp accounts. If you think these systems are bad (and you're right if you do), stop donating content to them to make them more attractive to your friends and family. It's rude and antisocial to push your loved ones toward these abusive systems.
- reilly3000 5y ago
  Those are good theories, but there are also some larger questions, like can humans stomach being part of a non-local mega tribe? Can they accept that there is no possible way to feel ‘finished’ when there is an infinite amount of content? Does superficial overconsumption of content leave the brain depleted yet unsated? Hacker News is ad-free and not particularly aggressive with engagement-optimizated sorting, yet I often walk away from HN sessions with mild depression. Also inspiration, defeat, numbness, laughter, and a sense of subtle superiority. My point is that digital connection, content, and curation is completely novel to ours or any species. Facebook’s use of the technology may be greedy and or detrimental, but the entire paradigm is without precedent.
- skhr0680 5y ago
  It’s easy to fall into the trap of thinking everyone else’s life is perfect because they are always posting photos of the best moments
goldcd 5y ago
I've no love for Facebook and the rest of social media - I can't help but hear this latest warning as just the current "think of the children". We've had Elvis's hips, communists, hippies, satanic rock, video-nasties, murder-simulating computer games, raves and have worked our way through at least 3 waves of 'internet panic' My guess is we'll rank this discussion in retrospect the same way as those previous 'issues' When I read a story about "the Republican congresswoman from Washington confronted Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg" I can almost hear the mantra instilled in Mark's head "Don't say nobody under 30 is using Facebook, say anything, admit anything, just appear relevant" Now I'm definitely not saying social media is blameless - but it's not invented aspirational capitalism or bullying. It existed, will always exist, and just uses the conduits available. If we consider the message, not the messenger, I actually think "the youth of today" is far better adjusted than I was at their age. But we're not allowed to say that are we? There's never been a generation than looks at the new one, and collectively says they're better than us.
- treeman79 5y ago
  Watching a happy and polite teenage daughter become horrifically depressed and nasty when on social media is a gut punch. Several years of off of it for multiple months. Very happy. On it for a couple of months. Depressed and nasty. Every single time. We were always the bad guys for restricting. She’s moved out and married now. Now talks about how depressed she gets on it.
  - goldcd 5y ago
    Yes. It must be social media. Teenagers were previously well known for being bundles of joy. And for thanking their parents for imposing rules. Still, good to know that you were right and she knows this now.
    - detaro 5y ago
      fwiw, this comment also isn't really in the spirit of the "open discussion" you miss.
annadane 5y ago
None of this would be a problem with a user configurable feed and not whatever crap they throw at you
- renewiltord 5y ago
  One would think so, but Instagram’s feed is highly configurable. I only see stuff that my friends have posted, all stories are chronological, and there’s a little “you’ve caught up” anti-doomscroller card. However, Instagram is supposed to be Public Enemy No 1. So that’s clearly not the problem.
crystalball909 5y ago
will we live to see the day of wanting to 'work for a faang' as seeming as morally repugnant as wanting to work for monsanto, blackwater, etc? i guess nobody cares _really_ because everyone is addicted to their products, and no one wants to stop using the products because of fear of missing out. they should look into seeing if this stuff is actually making people depressed
- JohnJamesRambo 5y ago
  It already is the same to me. I do not respect anyone that works for Facebook. They are the same as working for RJ Reynolds tobacco to me. There is no safe dosage or way to use the Facebook product. Maybe we thought there was, but I don't know of anyone that is not harmed by it that has an account. Apple - some things good (well designed products), some things bad (phone addiction is a real problem, but they do at least try to make a token attempt to curb it) Amazon - some things good (cheap products at my door instantly almost, don't have to drive and go shop and get ripped off/not find what I need), some things bad (warehouse workers treatment, every product is 4.5 stars even if it is boxed dog crap) Netflix - sure, probably ok, not harming humans Google - losing my respect, don't be evil mantra turning into irony
  - wearywanderer 5y ago
    > Netflix - sure, probably ok, not harming humans Consider wiktionary's definitions of the word 'binge': > A short period of excessive consumption, especially of food, alcohol, narcotics, etc. > (by extension) A short period of an activity done in excess, such as watching a television show. The word 'binge' is often used by people to describe their netflix habits (https://hn.algolia.com/?query=netflix%20binge&sort=byPopularity&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?query=netflix%20binge&sort=byPopular...). Insofar as the design of netflix encourages binge consumption, I think netflix is harmful.
- sneak 5y ago
  > will we live to see the day of wanting to 'work for a faang' as seeming as morally repugnant as wanting to work for monsanto, blackwater, etc? Unlikely; I still see resumes with Palantir on them and they're taken seriously in SV companies even outside of the military-industrial complex. Ultimately most people don't have the energy or economic incentive to care as long as their $15k paychecks show up every month.
Juntu 5y ago
Disagreement concave deciding for sucker berg mark ruined ID names that triggered people to see the light out of depression. I agree it’s why researchers see what’s the outside in and not the inside out. Threads
PragmaticPulp 5y ago
> "The correlational evidence showing that there is a link between social media use and depression is pretty definitive at this point," said Jean Twenge, a psychology professor at San Diego State University. "The largest and most well-conducted studies that we have all show that teens who spend more time on social media are more likely to be depressed or unhappy." > Correlation is not causation, and one area of further study is whether greater social media usage leads to poor mental health outcomes or whether those who are depressed and unhappy are drawn to spend more time on social media. These are correlational studies. They aren't saying that they have evidence that Facebook causes depression. They're saying that increased social media usage is correlated with depression. Stepping back, it appears that screen time is correlated with depressive symptoms, with or without social media. One such study: Association between screen time and depression among US adults https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5574844/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5574844/ This includes watching TV or simply using a computer for leisure of any sort. I know Facebook is a popular villain, but we shouldn't be jumping to conclusions that this data means Facebook causes depression or that Facebook is uniquely worse than other forms of screen time in its correlation with depression.
- adolph 5y ago
  Facebook may not cause depression but they seem to be cigarette-maker defensive about it.
  - gojomo 5y ago
    Villagers coming at you with torches and pitchforks can make anyone defensive.
    - croniev 5y ago
      Or educated researchers with empirical studies and legit concerns
  - fsflover 5y ago
    Indeed, it has something to do with cigarettes: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24579498 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24579498
azemetre 5y ago
It's very odd, I use to use Instagram and it would make me depressed. IDK how to explain, I don't even have any friends on there I follow. Just something about seeing everyone at their best 100% of the time, doing amazing things 100% of the time, never facing adversity 100% of the time. I know it's not realistic but it still gets to your head. I uninstalled it from my phone I feel better about myself after a few weeks. I'm guessing most of, if not all, social media is the same. I'm slowly trying to ween myself off but it is so meticulously addictive.
- PragmaticPulp 5y ago
  > IDK how to explain, I don't even have any friends on there I follow. Social media is best used for keeping in touch with friends and family. If you're just browsing popular photos from people you don't know, it's basically an interactive and targeted version of watching TV. We all grew up understanding that endless TV consumption is an unhealthy activity that we should minimize, but it has taken a while for the same sentiment to be applied to social media. I don't bother with the discover tab in Instagram and I mostly follow people I know. I can usually catch up on everything in 5-10 minutes per day at most, including some comments on friends' photos. > I'm slowly trying to ween myself off but it is so meticulously addictive. Being addicted to anything is a massive trigger for depression, especially when it displaces productive activities and replaces them with sedentary consumption. If you can't use something without becoming addicted, it's best to not use it at all.
  - sildur 5y ago
    > Social media is best used for keeping in touch with friends and family. Not even that... Facebook can show you the worst of your friends and family. Doesn't feel healthy.
  - tomc1985 5y ago
    Instagram is making this style of usage more and more difficult, most recently by burying seen posts behind a link and feeding you discovery crap after that
  - azemetre 5y ago
goldcd 5y ago
My post below got downvoted. That made me a bit sad. I thought I'd made a good point, hadn't meant to upset anybody, would have been open to discussion on it, but..
- JetAlone 5y ago
  Your post made a comeback. People in different timezones feel different and strongly about what you wrote. The discussion is divisive and largely reinforces what we individually already believe. For people experiencing the problems of a new, unregulated cultural force it's just too real, too immediate. The problems of the past were real, but they're not that real to us anymore. Worth pointing at to reinforce our own ideas about today, but not worth equating to today's stuff as a means of settling ourselves down.
mastrsushi 5y ago
It's pretty tiring to see activists and researchers targeting big bad Facebook when clearly the issue is social media as a whole. An app where the user watches a 5 second video of some rich 18 year old from LA making smoothie bowls. Then the user swipes up to a video of some 22 year old lifting half the weight of an economy sized car. The fact that this isn't obviously depression inducing is concerning. I know by posting on this site, I'm contributing very little. But there needs to be a campaign against social media. Something that tells the world, this is mood altering and unnaturally over-stimulating. That we weren't meant to lay down slide up at our screens like brain dead slugs watching 5 second clips for 5 hours after work. Maybe I've become too programmer minded, but we were meant to make things, read books, listen to music, even watching TV shows is more meaningful.
- pier25 5y ago
  What is "social media as a whole"? Does HN count as social media? Where do you draw the line?
  - mastrsushi 5y ago
    Sites where you can peek into other people's lives, or at least what you think is. To me HN is nothing more innocent than a virtual programming club.
    - quelltext 5y ago
      I sometimes spend hours after work browsing HN and reading articles about tech, trying to keep up with new frameworks or concepts. Seeing everyone understanding stuff in comments is sometimes very depressing as I feel under pressure to match up to what others seem to grok so easily. So, it can be quite the same as Instagram. The comments on HN are often similar in nature to the Instagram posts in that they only show people at their best, in the sense that they generally wouldn't post if they didn't have something smart to add. But there are so many folks in tech that don't necessarily understand everything. I am exaggerating a bit here for the sake of argument. There is certainly a difference, but the core reason is often identified as comparing yourself with unrealistic representations of what life, abilities, looks, etc. of others is like. And that can happen in any forum.
fnord77 5y ago
Warning: This website is known to the State of California to cause depression
snarf21 5y ago
'It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.' - Upton Sinclair
avl999 5y ago
If Facebook were to just disappear tomorrow all of humanity would be better off. I am not saying it would solve all our problems but I think it gives such a boost to humanity in so many spheres that it instantly pushes us on a much more positive trajectory.
- jVinc 5y ago
  If we're talking about general good, I cannot for the life of me imagine why anyone would pick Facebook as "the thing" to disappear. I mean aside from the idealistic candidates like Wars or Guns, what about cigarettes, alcohol or all the other drugs that are widely used, have clear connections to depression and most of which will also literally kill you if overused? I really doubt getting rid of Facebook would do the world more good than any of those candidates. But of cause freedom of choice and let each pick their own poisen etc.
King-Aaron 5y ago
I've limited my facebook to following two major kinds of content: 1. Cars (and car related shitposting), and 2. Warhammer. I do follow close friends too. But basically I don't look at any news, fluff articles, and skip through most ads. My Instagram is basically the same. Cars, hobby painting, and to be fair, puppies as well. It's made me feel better.
nineplay 5y ago
Possibly there's more out there, but the evidence presented in the article is frankly pretty poor. I'd call it "inconclusive" if they asked me. A couple of studies referenced https://news.uark.edu/articles/55480/increased-social-media-use-linked-to-developing-depression-research-finds https://news.uark.edu/articles/55480/increased-social-media-... This one is not limited to Facebook it includes reddit on the list of "social media" sites. I think reddit's one of the most depressing places on the internet so I wouldn't be quick to point the finger at FB here. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2737909 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/... This study looks at all screen time including playing video games and watching TV. It's not very useful for making a case against Facebook
- mrweasel 5y ago
  Site like Reddit and Imgur are puzzling. They claim to have great communities, but in reality they are absolutely toxic. Any opinion that’s not in line with that of overall community is instantly attacked and shutdown. If you want diversity you have a much better experience going to 4chan.
- kuu 5y ago
  The article is basically saying that the research is pretty poor because Facebook is not sharing the information or creating articles that blurry the actual conclusions. The article, precisely, asks for more research
eplanit 5y ago
Social networking companies seem more like tobacco companies every day.
nverno 5y ago
The only useful stat in the graphic is the bottom one "were injured in a suicide attempt that had to be treated by a doctor or nurse", which seems easily quantifiable and interpretable. Sadly, since they don't show longer term context it's hard to know the significance of a change from 1.9% to 2.5% (is this stat historically variable across years?). Language and what is acceptable to talk about change so much over time that the rest of the stats are useless.
whereis 5y ago
Back in 1997, I briefly hung around a criminal who ran a crew known to the feds. I'd drive around with him on non-crime stuff related to his "day job" (front). I've been dealing with various forms of stalking, hacking, harassment and targeting since, almost certainly tied back in large part to that brief association in 1997. Last spring (2020), this man who I haven't seen or communicated with since the late 1990's, was scheduled to be released from federal prison. Around that day, my Facebook's "people you may know" was littered with county sheriffs and task force types in his area, all shown to me in a row. I have been thousands of miles away from that area since the mid 2000's. I'm at a major low point now, middle aged, broken down, homeless, defeated with learned helplessness well-established. Being targeted for so long was a major contributing factor. The irony is that I didn't engage in criminal activity with this person, and only hung around him briefly. Facebook, I'd like to see all of the data you keep on me. The secret dossier, the govt lists, the algos you use, the logs you've created, the supposed "ai we don't understand". All of it. Same for google, twitter and the rest. Information asymmetry isn't making end users happy in many cases. I'm fucking creeped out by these malicious machines we've allowed SV to create. Thank God I don't have kids because I plan on departing this shithole ape planet soon -- it ain't gonna get better any time soon. Needless to say, I don't use FB any longer. Fsck Facebook. And Google, twitter and reddit. I've been targeted on all of these platforms and more.
- SrslyJosh 5y ago
  GDPR data request?
  - whereis 5y ago
    usa
williesleg 5y ago
Facebook is a shit hole.
billwear 5y ago
Facebook and Instagram are based in shame, the feeling that you are somehow unworthy or less worthy. this is where advertisers need you to be to successfully sell you their products. imnsho, shame is the root of a lot of anxiety, and a gateway to depression.
billwear 5y ago
shame (feeling comparatively unworthy) is the root of anxiety, and it's the magic exilir of advertising and selling. it's also a gateway to depression. imnsho, that's how FB, etc., link to depression.
connorlay 5y ago
Back in college I enrolled in a human-computer interaction course as part of a double major I was pursing at the time. A large body of newly-published research at the time, in 2016, was finding statistically significant positive correlations between the use of social media and rates of self-reported depression. As someone who has struggled with depression their entire life, 2016 was the year I deleted my Facebook account. I have absolutely no regrets doing so and I encourage everyone to consider breaking free.
- diamond_hands 5y ago
  Do you happen to have a link? Would love to share it with some friends showing signs of depression who are heavy social media users
  - connorlay 5y ago
    I don't have it readily available, but I'll dig around and see if I can find what we covered in class. IIRC it was primarily focused on teenagers in the United States.
rblion 5y ago
Many people I know are simply addicted to the dopamine that IG and FB gives. It's designed this way. I struggle with it too sometimes but I deactivated my FB this week, still have IG. At least that one adds some value to my life. We will one day look back at social media like we did at cigarettes and soft drinks. The Internet is still developing, it's a shame most people I know simply accept 'this is the way it is' instead of doing something about it.
grae_QED 5y ago
So another piece of evidence suggesting that unhealthy social media use exacerbates depression. Am I the only one desensitized to hearing about how bad social media is for you. I've heard it so often that now my first thought when I hear that is, "yeah, duh." But no one ever listens. People who post stories about how they "quit social media and never felt better" get tons of attention because most people recognized that social media is bad for them. But just like a drug, everyone is aware of these feelings but never listens to them. Those posts also remind people of their bad relationship with social media which puts them in an even deeper spell of unhappiness. So, in order to feel better about themselves they go on Facebook and watch Dude Perfect videos until they're numb. Here is some unsolicited advice: just stop. That's it. It's the same with other forms of addiction (with the exception of drugs that can kill when you go cold turky. Luckily, social media is not one of them), you just stop doing them. What do they do in rehabilitation? They distract you from thoughts about drugs and try to create other avenues for you to get the reward mechanisms drugs gave you before. But really all that boils down to is you just stopping and moving on.
nathias 5y ago
surely they will limit this to data collected from US right?
user120894 5y ago
Personally I
user120894 5y ago
Being in the tech field, platforms like LinkedIn though very helpful with getting jobs and connecting with people, also creates a huge sense of self-doubt and always makes you feel you haven't achieved enough, even though you actually have. Can't even avoid going on there when looking for jobs with all the notifications and everything. Not sure what could be changed on LinkedIn to change that.

388 points by tareqak 5y ago

In 2021, it's hard to argue that any use of social media (and to a large extent, allowing technology to permeate your daily life) is desirable, and quite easy to argue that it's to your detriment. Funny, a bunch of years ago I'd look at groups like the Amish or religious Jews, whose ways naturally kept them out of these trends - as somewhat backwards, and missing out. But now it seems like their ways shield and protect them from these things in a way that may soon be the envy of most others.

polynomial 5y ago

Proving that Facebook "causes" depression seems like a pretty high bar. Showing that Facebook contributes to or exacerbates an underlying propensity for depression seems to have strong support in the current research. The more interesting question is how does Facebook amplify this as an underlying tendency of social media in general (or even what we euphemistically refer to as "being online")? Who's more depressed, Facebook users or Twitter users? Why is that?

julienb_sea 5y ago

This article discusses correlational evidence. The basis for causation is speculative at best, and there is a long list of cofounding factors. The side effects of attempting to bar social media usage by teens might further amplify the problem, driving them away from carefully moderated platforms.

bseidensticker 5y ago
Are you calling Facebook "carefully moderated"?
- julienb_sea 5y ago
  I certainly am calling Facebook and other mainstream social media more carefully moderated than off-the-beaten-path social networks which glorify anorexia, self-harm and other disorders.
  - bitexploder 5y ago
    Guess it depends on what you want moderated. I don’t consider Facebook very well moderated. They moderate what helps them sell ads and leave the rest of their sewer alone.
  - munk-a 5y ago
    These are very serious issues and I don't in any way mean to minimize them but, honestly, nazis and anti-vaxxers are legion on facebook. These groups both pose serious societal threats especially in the middle of a pandemic.
  - gerdesj 5y ago
    Your very words: "off-the-beaten-path" describes the difference between FB and ... them. FB does seem to have a moderation system of sorts but it cannot possibly cope with the tsunami of incoming content. FB cannot be considered moderated in any meaningful way unless FB employs a significant proportion of the world's population. So, I do not agree with you that FB effectively moderate their forum/network. I don't care about other forums/networks - that's whataboutery. I assert that FB routinely allows: misogyny, misandry, racism and all other forms of hate speech to permeate their network without effective detection, identification and control of such. Call me out.
    - lostlogin 5y ago
      They have fractionally more moderation after a white nationalist committed the Christchurch massacre. FB remained silent for two weeks in the aftermath then contributed the below (which doesn’t seem to actually name any changes). There was a strongly negative reaction here on HN when ISPs started blocking access to the killer’s live stream. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/facebook-chief-operating-officer-sheryl-sandbergs-letter-to-new-zealand/UAPCQMTI645ICB734DKQW25FQQ/ https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/facebook-chief-operating...
xenihn 5y ago
Moderation is actually the problem. The internet was a better place for everyone when it was just webrings, usenet, and goatse.
- kazinator 5y ago
  The internet was a better place when it didn't have all those people that require moderation.
- guerrilla 5y ago
  I think we only feel and think this way because that wss prior to a wider and more gradual Eternal September. I don't think we can go back at this point.
  - munk-a 5y ago
    I'd actually attribute that to the technical inaccessibility of the internet meaning that, while not everyone on the internet at that point was smart, they were almost all curious about new things. The user base of the early internet was basically self-selected to be quite full of skeptics.
    - wutbrodo 5y ago
      Yup, you can see this effect all the way to the 2010s, before which "Internet kid" was practically a subculture (or group of subcultures). Once everybody arrived on Facebook, the Internet became an almost-universal social phenomenon. This is cool in its own way, but it also means that "internet people" converges rapidly to "people".
- asddubs 5y ago
  i think size is actually the problem. smaller moderated communities are way better than facebook or unmoderated shitholes
PragmaticPulp 5y ago
Screen time in general is correlated with depression ( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5574844/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5574844/ ), so it shouldn't be surprising that specific screen time activities are correlated with depression. It's popular to demonize Facebook, but the reality is that sedentary activities in general are highly correlated with depressive symptoms. This goes both ways: Being sedentary instead of active is unhealthy and can exacerbate depression, and being depressed can exacerbate sedentary behavior. Facebook is just one example of a sedentary activity, but watching TV and using a computer for leisure are also highly correlated with depression. It's entirely possible that Facebook has some unique properties that make it worse than other sedentary time-wasting activities, but we need to be honest that it might simply be equivalent to other sedentary screen time activities in this regard. Without actual data, we're just guessing and projecting our feelings about Facebook onto correlation studies.
acituan 5y ago
> This article discusses correlational evidence. The basis for causation is speculative at best, and there is a long list of cofounding factors. If you had a well formed hypothesis before conducting a correlational study, and the outcome supported your hypothesis, it is not "just speculative causation" anymore. In fact, short of human experimentation, that is as good of a data as we could ever get. > The side effects of attempting to bar social media usage by teens might further amplify the problem, driving them away from carefully moderated platforms. Is there any data, even correlational, for this particular speculation?

galonk 5y ago

Facebook is the new tobacco industry.

cryptoz 5y ago
The new tobacco industry...of decades ago. A long time ago we banned advertising smoking to children (or at least, tried to) but the beforetimes of that decision were rough. Kids commercials for smoking, toy cigarettes, etc. Facebook is actively marketing to youth today just like tobacco did decades ago, indeed. It's a great analogy because it also works well for adults: we're free to use the product/service, we have our freedom! Even if it slowly (or quickly) kills us.
- a3n 5y ago
  When I was a kid in the sixties I got chock-like candy cigarettes in my Christmas stocking, and for Halloween. I remember some were a bit powdery and you could blow on them and simulate smoke.
  - adolph 5y ago
    Those were the best! Chalky just like Tums https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candy_cigarette https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candy_cigarette
version_five 5y ago
I'd say more generally that the online advertising (or attention, if you like) industry has massive negative externalities that they are trying to downplay and not take responsibility for.
- goodlinks 5y ago
  Imho advertising is a meme that is at odds with humanity (meme as in the original definition). People worry about ai operating in software, this is an ai that has been running in the collective wetware of humans for some time that is significantly hindering us.

scotuswroteus 5y ago

double negative headlines suck

thoughtstheseus 5y ago

Why isn’t the mental health of people using its platform a priority for Facebook?

yumraj 5y ago
Because its revenues are dependent on users being addicted to its service. Your question is akin to asking why are crack dealers not worried about the health of their customers.
- munk-a 5y ago
  Well crack dealers all want their customers to be immortal customers - but they'd prefer it if their customers were customers for longer compared to alive for longer.
  - yumraj 5y ago
    It’s not about longevity, it’s about LTV. If the consumption, and hence value, is high, the LTV can be maximized even if the lifetime is low.
- goldcd 5y ago
  But you could apply that to any business "They sell tasty food, to keep them eating it" or "They mow the green to keep them golfing on it" What business can you possibly think of tha manages to succeed without making their consumers want to consume?
renewiltord 5y ago
Well, simply because it doesn’t involve itself in it. For instance, one might well ask “Why does the Forestry department not care about the mental health of visitors?” They don’t, except incidentally, because they have an orthogonal pursuit - that of the preservation, maintenance, and accessibility of our forests.
standardUser 5y ago
I have never heard of a profit-seeking enterprise that has considered making mental health a priority and would never, ever, EVER expect one to. Or am I just missing the snarkiness of this comment?

ipnon 5y ago

Note that Facebook does not have the choice to agree. To do so would be to open Facebook to unimaginable legal liability. So Facebook's opinion in the matter is moot. There are practically no inputs to this function that will change its behavior.

oh_sigh 5y ago
How so? Isn't there a link to types of alcohol use and depression(and cancer, and diminished mental capacity, and early death)? It's not like alcohol companies are being sued out of existence. Realistically I think that it just so happens that the people who would work at facebook are the people who naturally don't believe that facebook is a force of badness in the world because their worldview already aligned with facebook before they joined.
- GavinMcG 5y ago
  Companies are allowed to provide dangerous products. It's just that they can't do so without warning people and (potentially) without changing designs or taking other measures to protect people from the harm, unless the danger is already common knowledge.
  - oh_sigh 5y ago
    Alcohol labels don't warn people about increased odds of colorectal, liver, or esophageal cancer....at least any of the labels I've read. All they say is don't operate machinery and don't drink it while pregnant.
  - munk-a 5y ago
    Well - it depends on the product. Do recall that until recently MJ was illegal across the board and the US Federal Government is still against legality. It's also illegal to own a tank. Honestly, companies are prohibited from selling dangerous products unless there is some reason they are viewed as being dangerous but of more value being legal than illegal. While libertarianism is rife in America - there is no inherent right to trade in dangerous products. If I decided to sell needles full of deadly poison at my store - even if very clearly labeled and even if I sat you down for a twenty minute presentation before each sale occurred - it's quite likely I'd be shut down.

1vuio0pswjnm7 5y ago

[deleted]

munk-a 5y ago
I agree with this comment 100% - please increase the value of my facebook shares.

tunesmith 5y ago

Has there been any further detail on what about social media is linked to depression? For instance, with Facebook, is it more because of the ads? Or is it more because of the engagement algorithms? Or, would it happen even if Facebook were just a reverse-chronological feed, populated only by your chosen friends, with zero advertising?

sneak 5y ago
> Or, would it happen even if Facebook were just a reverse-chronological feed, populated only by your chosen friends, with zero advertising? We never heard about RSS feed readers causing depression, except when Google cancelled the most popular one. It's possible that having all of your friendship interactions being quietly censored and reorganized to financially benefit a giant multinational is actually the depressing thing. Delete your Facebook, Instagram, and WhatsApp accounts. If you think these systems are bad (and you're right if you do), stop donating content to them to make them more attractive to your friends and family. It's rude and antisocial to push your loved ones toward these abusive systems.
reilly3000 5y ago
Those are good theories, but there are also some larger questions, like can humans stomach being part of a non-local mega tribe? Can they accept that there is no possible way to feel ‘finished’ when there is an infinite amount of content? Does superficial overconsumption of content leave the brain depleted yet unsated? Hacker News is ad-free and not particularly aggressive with engagement-optimizated sorting, yet I often walk away from HN sessions with mild depression. Also inspiration, defeat, numbness, laughter, and a sense of subtle superiority. My point is that digital connection, content, and curation is completely novel to ours or any species. Facebook’s use of the technology may be greedy and or detrimental, but the entire paradigm is without precedent.
skhr0680 5y ago
It’s easy to fall into the trap of thinking everyone else’s life is perfect because they are always posting photos of the best moments

goldcd 5y ago

I've no love for Facebook and the rest of social media - I can't help but hear this latest warning as just the current "think of the children". We've had Elvis's hips, communists, hippies, satanic rock, video-nasties, murder-simulating computer games, raves and have worked our way through at least 3 waves of 'internet panic' My guess is we'll rank this discussion in retrospect the same way as those previous 'issues' When I read a story about "the Republican congresswoman from Washington confronted Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg" I can almost hear the mantra instilled in Mark's head "Don't say nobody under 30 is using Facebook, say anything, admit anything, just appear relevant" Now I'm definitely not saying social media is blameless - but it's not invented aspirational capitalism or bullying. It existed, will always exist, and just uses the conduits available. If we consider the message, not the messenger, I actually think "the youth of today" is far better adjusted than I was at their age. But we're not allowed to say that are we? There's never been a generation than looks at the new one, and collectively says they're better than us.

treeman79 5y ago
Watching a happy and polite teenage daughter become horrifically depressed and nasty when on social media is a gut punch. Several years of off of it for multiple months. Very happy. On it for a couple of months. Depressed and nasty. Every single time. We were always the bad guys for restricting. She’s moved out and married now. Now talks about how depressed she gets on it.
- goldcd 5y ago
  Yes. It must be social media. Teenagers were previously well known for being bundles of joy. And for thanking their parents for imposing rules. Still, good to know that you were right and she knows this now.
  - detaro 5y ago
    fwiw, this comment also isn't really in the spirit of the "open discussion" you miss.

annadane 5y ago

None of this would be a problem with a user configurable feed and not whatever crap they throw at you

renewiltord 5y ago
One would think so, but Instagram’s feed is highly configurable. I only see stuff that my friends have posted, all stories are chronological, and there’s a little “you’ve caught up” anti-doomscroller card. However, Instagram is supposed to be Public Enemy No 1. So that’s clearly not the problem.

crystalball909 5y ago

will we live to see the day of wanting to 'work for a faang' as seeming as morally repugnant as wanting to work for monsanto, blackwater, etc? i guess nobody cares _really_ because everyone is addicted to their products, and no one wants to stop using the products because of fear of missing out. they should look into seeing if this stuff is actually making people depressed

JohnJamesRambo 5y ago
It already is the same to me. I do not respect anyone that works for Facebook. They are the same as working for RJ Reynolds tobacco to me. There is no safe dosage or way to use the Facebook product. Maybe we thought there was, but I don't know of anyone that is not harmed by it that has an account. Apple - some things good (well designed products), some things bad (phone addiction is a real problem, but they do at least try to make a token attempt to curb it) Amazon - some things good (cheap products at my door instantly almost, don't have to drive and go shop and get ripped off/not find what I need), some things bad (warehouse workers treatment, every product is 4.5 stars even if it is boxed dog crap) Netflix - sure, probably ok, not harming humans Google - losing my respect, don't be evil mantra turning into irony
- wearywanderer 5y ago
  > Netflix - sure, probably ok, not harming humans Consider wiktionary's definitions of the word 'binge': > A short period of excessive consumption, especially of food, alcohol, narcotics, etc. > (by extension) A short period of an activity done in excess, such as watching a television show. The word 'binge' is often used by people to describe their netflix habits (https://hn.algolia.com/?query=netflix%20binge&sort=byPopularity&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?query=netflix%20binge&sort=byPopular...). Insofar as the design of netflix encourages binge consumption, I think netflix is harmful.
sneak 5y ago
> will we live to see the day of wanting to 'work for a faang' as seeming as morally repugnant as wanting to work for monsanto, blackwater, etc? Unlikely; I still see resumes with Palantir on them and they're taken seriously in SV companies even outside of the military-industrial complex. Ultimately most people don't have the energy or economic incentive to care as long as their $15k paychecks show up every month.

Juntu 5y ago

Disagreement concave deciding for sucker berg mark ruined ID names that triggered people to see the light out of depression. I agree it’s why researchers see what’s the outside in and not the inside out. Threads

PragmaticPulp 5y ago

> "The correlational evidence showing that there is a link between social media use and depression is pretty definitive at this point," said Jean Twenge, a psychology professor at San Diego State University. "The largest and most well-conducted studies that we have all show that teens who spend more time on social media are more likely to be depressed or unhappy." > Correlation is not causation, and one area of further study is whether greater social media usage leads to poor mental health outcomes or whether those who are depressed and unhappy are drawn to spend more time on social media. These are correlational studies. They aren't saying that they have evidence that Facebook causes depression. They're saying that increased social media usage is correlated with depression. Stepping back, it appears that screen time is correlated with depressive symptoms, with or without social media. One such study: Association between screen time and depression among US adults https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5574844/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5574844/ This includes watching TV or simply using a computer for leisure of any sort. I know Facebook is a popular villain, but we shouldn't be jumping to conclusions that this data means Facebook causes depression or that Facebook is uniquely worse than other forms of screen time in its correlation with depression.

adolph 5y ago
Facebook may not cause depression but they seem to be cigarette-maker defensive about it.
- gojomo 5y ago
  Villagers coming at you with torches and pitchforks can make anyone defensive.
  - croniev 5y ago
    Or educated researchers with empirical studies and legit concerns
- fsflover 5y ago
  Indeed, it has something to do with cigarettes: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24579498 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24579498

azemetre 5y ago

It's very odd, I use to use Instagram and it would make me depressed. IDK how to explain, I don't even have any friends on there I follow. Just something about seeing everyone at their best 100% of the time, doing amazing things 100% of the time, never facing adversity 100% of the time. I know it's not realistic but it still gets to your head. I uninstalled it from my phone I feel better about myself after a few weeks. I'm guessing most of, if not all, social media is the same. I'm slowly trying to ween myself off but it is so meticulously addictive.

PragmaticPulp 5y ago
> IDK how to explain, I don't even have any friends on there I follow. Social media is best used for keeping in touch with friends and family. If you're just browsing popular photos from people you don't know, it's basically an interactive and targeted version of watching TV. We all grew up understanding that endless TV consumption is an unhealthy activity that we should minimize, but it has taken a while for the same sentiment to be applied to social media. I don't bother with the discover tab in Instagram and I mostly follow people I know. I can usually catch up on everything in 5-10 minutes per day at most, including some comments on friends' photos. > I'm slowly trying to ween myself off but it is so meticulously addictive. Being addicted to anything is a massive trigger for depression, especially when it displaces productive activities and replaces them with sedentary consumption. If you can't use something without becoming addicted, it's best to not use it at all.
- sildur 5y ago
  > Social media is best used for keeping in touch with friends and family. Not even that... Facebook can show you the worst of your friends and family. Doesn't feel healthy.
- tomc1985 5y ago
  Instagram is making this style of usage more and more difficult, most recently by burying seen posts behind a link and feeding you discovery crap after that
- azemetre 5y ago

goldcd 5y ago

My post below got downvoted. That made me a bit sad. I thought I'd made a good point, hadn't meant to upset anybody, would have been open to discussion on it, but..

JetAlone 5y ago
Your post made a comeback. People in different timezones feel different and strongly about what you wrote. The discussion is divisive and largely reinforces what we individually already believe. For people experiencing the problems of a new, unregulated cultural force it's just too real, too immediate. The problems of the past were real, but they're not that real to us anymore. Worth pointing at to reinforce our own ideas about today, but not worth equating to today's stuff as a means of settling ourselves down.

mastrsushi 5y ago

It's pretty tiring to see activists and researchers targeting big bad Facebook when clearly the issue is social media as a whole. An app where the user watches a 5 second video of some rich 18 year old from LA making smoothie bowls. Then the user swipes up to a video of some 22 year old lifting half the weight of an economy sized car. The fact that this isn't obviously depression inducing is concerning. I know by posting on this site, I'm contributing very little. But there needs to be a campaign against social media. Something that tells the world, this is mood altering and unnaturally over-stimulating. That we weren't meant to lay down slide up at our screens like brain dead slugs watching 5 second clips for 5 hours after work. Maybe I've become too programmer minded, but we were meant to make things, read books, listen to music, even watching TV shows is more meaningful.

pier25 5y ago
What is "social media as a whole"? Does HN count as social media? Where do you draw the line?
- mastrsushi 5y ago
  Sites where you can peek into other people's lives, or at least what you think is. To me HN is nothing more innocent than a virtual programming club.
  - quelltext 5y ago
    I sometimes spend hours after work browsing HN and reading articles about tech, trying to keep up with new frameworks or concepts. Seeing everyone understanding stuff in comments is sometimes very depressing as I feel under pressure to match up to what others seem to grok so easily. So, it can be quite the same as Instagram. The comments on HN are often similar in nature to the Instagram posts in that they only show people at their best, in the sense that they generally wouldn't post if they didn't have something smart to add. But there are so many folks in tech that don't necessarily understand everything. I am exaggerating a bit here for the sake of argument. There is certainly a difference, but the core reason is often identified as comparing yourself with unrealistic representations of what life, abilities, looks, etc. of others is like. And that can happen in any forum.

fnord77 5y ago

Warning: This website is known to the State of California to cause depression

snarf21 5y ago

'It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.' - Upton Sinclair

avl999 5y ago

If Facebook were to just disappear tomorrow all of humanity would be better off. I am not saying it would solve all our problems but I think it gives such a boost to humanity in so many spheres that it instantly pushes us on a much more positive trajectory.

jVinc 5y ago
If we're talking about general good, I cannot for the life of me imagine why anyone would pick Facebook as "the thing" to disappear. I mean aside from the idealistic candidates like Wars or Guns, what about cigarettes, alcohol or all the other drugs that are widely used, have clear connections to depression and most of which will also literally kill you if overused? I really doubt getting rid of Facebook would do the world more good than any of those candidates. But of cause freedom of choice and let each pick their own poisen etc.

King-Aaron 5y ago

I've limited my facebook to following two major kinds of content: 1. Cars (and car related shitposting), and 2. Warhammer. I do follow close friends too. But basically I don't look at any news, fluff articles, and skip through most ads. My Instagram is basically the same. Cars, hobby painting, and to be fair, puppies as well. It's made me feel better.

nineplay 5y ago

Possibly there's more out there, but the evidence presented in the article is frankly pretty poor. I'd call it "inconclusive" if they asked me. A couple of studies referenced https://news.uark.edu/articles/55480/increased-social-media-use-linked-to-developing-depression-research-finds https://news.uark.edu/articles/55480/increased-social-media-... This one is not limited to Facebook it includes reddit on the list of "social media" sites. I think reddit's one of the most depressing places on the internet so I wouldn't be quick to point the finger at FB here. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2737909 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/... This study looks at all screen time including playing video games and watching TV. It's not very useful for making a case against Facebook

mrweasel 5y ago
Site like Reddit and Imgur are puzzling. They claim to have great communities, but in reality they are absolutely toxic. Any opinion that’s not in line with that of overall community is instantly attacked and shutdown. If you want diversity you have a much better experience going to 4chan.
kuu 5y ago
The article is basically saying that the research is pretty poor because Facebook is not sharing the information or creating articles that blurry the actual conclusions. The article, precisely, asks for more research

eplanit 5y ago

Social networking companies seem more like tobacco companies every day.

nverno 5y ago

The only useful stat in the graphic is the bottom one "were injured in a suicide attempt that had to be treated by a doctor or nurse", which seems easily quantifiable and interpretable. Sadly, since they don't show longer term context it's hard to know the significance of a change from 1.9% to 2.5% (is this stat historically variable across years?). Language and what is acceptable to talk about change so much over time that the rest of the stats are useless.

whereis 5y ago

Back in 1997, I briefly hung around a criminal who ran a crew known to the feds. I'd drive around with him on non-crime stuff related to his "day job" (front). I've been dealing with various forms of stalking, hacking, harassment and targeting since, almost certainly tied back in large part to that brief association in 1997. Last spring (2020), this man who I haven't seen or communicated with since the late 1990's, was scheduled to be released from federal prison. Around that day, my Facebook's "people you may know" was littered with county sheriffs and task force types in his area, all shown to me in a row. I have been thousands of miles away from that area since the mid 2000's. I'm at a major low point now, middle aged, broken down, homeless, defeated with learned helplessness well-established. Being targeted for so long was a major contributing factor. The irony is that I didn't engage in criminal activity with this person, and only hung around him briefly. Facebook, I'd like to see all of the data you keep on me. The secret dossier, the govt lists, the algos you use, the logs you've created, the supposed "ai we don't understand". All of it. Same for google, twitter and the rest. Information asymmetry isn't making end users happy in many cases. I'm fucking creeped out by these malicious machines we've allowed SV to create. Thank God I don't have kids because I plan on departing this shithole ape planet soon -- it ain't gonna get better any time soon. Needless to say, I don't use FB any longer. Fsck Facebook. And Google, twitter and reddit. I've been targeted on all of these platforms and more.

SrslyJosh 5y ago
GDPR data request?
- whereis 5y ago
  usa

williesleg 5y ago

Facebook is a shit hole.

billwear 5y ago

Facebook and Instagram are based in shame, the feeling that you are somehow unworthy or less worthy. this is where advertisers need you to be to successfully sell you their products. imnsho, shame is the root of a lot of anxiety, and a gateway to depression.

billwear 5y ago

shame (feeling comparatively unworthy) is the root of anxiety, and it's the magic exilir of advertising and selling. it's also a gateway to depression. imnsho, that's how FB, etc., link to depression.

connorlay 5y ago

Back in college I enrolled in a human-computer interaction course as part of a double major I was pursing at the time. A large body of newly-published research at the time, in 2016, was finding statistically significant positive correlations between the use of social media and rates of self-reported depression. As someone who has struggled with depression their entire life, 2016 was the year I deleted my Facebook account. I have absolutely no regrets doing so and I encourage everyone to consider breaking free.

diamond_hands 5y ago
Do you happen to have a link? Would love to share it with some friends showing signs of depression who are heavy social media users
- connorlay 5y ago
  I don't have it readily available, but I'll dig around and see if I can find what we covered in class. IIRC it was primarily focused on teenagers in the United States.

rblion 5y ago

Many people I know are simply addicted to the dopamine that IG and FB gives. It's designed this way. I struggle with it too sometimes but I deactivated my FB this week, still have IG. At least that one adds some value to my life. We will one day look back at social media like we did at cigarettes and soft drinks. The Internet is still developing, it's a shame most people I know simply accept 'this is the way it is' instead of doing something about it.

grae_QED 5y ago

So another piece of evidence suggesting that unhealthy social media use exacerbates depression. Am I the only one desensitized to hearing about how bad social media is for you. I've heard it so often that now my first thought when I hear that is, "yeah, duh." But no one ever listens. People who post stories about how they "quit social media and never felt better" get tons of attention because most people recognized that social media is bad for them. But just like a drug, everyone is aware of these feelings but never listens to them. Those posts also remind people of their bad relationship with social media which puts them in an even deeper spell of unhappiness. So, in order to feel better about themselves they go on Facebook and watch Dude Perfect videos until they're numb. Here is some unsolicited advice: just stop. That's it. It's the same with other forms of addiction (with the exception of drugs that can kill when you go cold turky. Luckily, social media is not one of them), you just stop doing them. What do they do in rehabilitation? They distract you from thoughts about drugs and try to create other avenues for you to get the reward mechanisms drugs gave you before. But really all that boils down to is you just stopping and moving on.

nathias 5y ago

surely they will limit this to data collected from US right?

user120894 5y ago

Personally I

user120894 5y ago

Being in the tech field, platforms like LinkedIn though very helpful with getting jobs and connecting with people, also creates a huge sense of self-doubt and always makes you feel you haven't achieved enough, even though you actually have. Can't even avoid going on there when looking for jobs with all the notifications and everything. Not sure what could be changed on LinkedIn to change that.