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I guess I don't totally know how to respond to that; I have no idea what everyone is using it for. That's rather hard to know just looking at the blockchain, or

I guess I don't totally know how to respond to that; I have no idea what everyone is using it for. That's rather hard to know just looking at the blockchain, or even reading message boards like this. I have no problem spending it; pretty easy to convert it to gift cards that can be spent anywhere (they give you a kick back even), there's some places that do take it directly (not restaurants, or car repair, but like electronics stuff on the internet). And of course you can just sell it for fiat on an exchange then turn around and dump the fiat for stuff (in this case, fiat is kind of the weak asset since no one really wants to hold cash for long). Plus, it can buy some stuff you can't get with fiat (e.g. overseas purchases not tied into USD, or all the dark web stuff people talk about). It feels pretty darn liquid; I've never had a problem turning BTC into stuff. And it is way more so than gold, land, even stocks and bonds; none of which can turn into stuff in under an hour much less without audit/paper-trail/control. Only fiat is more liquid, except no one wants to hold fiat; just turn it into something else actually worth having. The real problem is getting BTC. Lots of roadblocks in acquiring it and generally the people who have it would rather pay you in fiat and keep their BTC.

Closi 5y ago
What’s the point of a currency where you have to convert it to another currency to spend it? (I’ve got an idea, and I think the answer is speculation….) Converting BTC to Fiat and then spending Fiat isn’t the same as buying things with Bitcoin. It’s buying things in Fiat with extra steps.
- fvdessen 5y ago
  If the extra step means my money doesn't lose value as government print cash like there's no tomorrow, then that step is quite valuable to me
  - FalconSensei 5y ago
    It only loses value when Elon shitpost on Twitter, right?
  - perl4ever 5y ago
    BTC seems to be about 10 times more volatile than the dollar on a daily basis. Like, last friday, the dollar was down about 0.4% and BTC was up or down 4-5% intraday. This seems to me kind of like the argument that the government is "just" another gang of armed bandits. There is a huge amount of value in predictable taxation rather than random robbery. Partly because of the variance, and partly because government has more of a long term interest in the viability of the citizenry, even if it weren't especially democratic per se. And similarly, there's a huge value in a currency that gradually loses value over time rather than being up or down 5% in a day and 30% in a few weeks. The whole point of currency is that it's not a long term investment asset, but a tool for trade, isn't it? So why would long run inflation be relevant?
    - a1369209993 5y ago
      > BTC seems to be about 10 times more volatile than the dollar on a daily basis. They're not talking about volatility; they're talking about the average trend over time.
      - perl4ever 5y ago
        I know. My point was this is the wrong focus, because of what currency is by nature. Short term volatility is a big disadvantage, while gradual loss in value doesn't matter for something that's not a long term investment. I owe way more money than I have in cash, as does almost everyone, and my loans being in nominal currency, inflation only helps.
        a1369209993 5y ago
        > My point was this is the wrong focus, because of what currency is by nature. Ah, fair enough. That said: > I owe way more money than I have in cash, as does almost everyone, and my loans being in nominal currency, inflation only helps. This only works if you have a effective means of prohibiting (any) interest on those loans (ie anti-usury laws that actually have teeth). Otherwise the lender just bakes inflation into the interest.
  - Qwertious 5y ago
    How is that different to investing in any other asset and then selling when you need to spend fiat currency, though?
- jazzyjackson 5y ago
  I convert my bank deposits to cash before spending it. It's not like there's cash in a vault with my name on it, I ask to withdraw cash and my checking account is debited. Doesn't seem so different than an exchange.
  - Closi 5y ago
    It’s entirely different, because you are transacting in the same currency without an exchange mechanism required. This is important in days like today, where a coffee would cost more in BTC this evening than it would have this morning - how do I know how many BTC I have spent without referring to the current market price in USD and calculating it?

Closi 5y ago

What’s the point of a currency where you have to convert it to another currency to spend it? (I’ve got an idea, and I think the answer is speculation….) Converting BTC to Fiat and then spending Fiat isn’t the same as buying things with Bitcoin. It’s buying things in Fiat with extra steps.

fvdessen 5y ago
If the extra step means my money doesn't lose value as government print cash like there's no tomorrow, then that step is quite valuable to me
- FalconSensei 5y ago
  It only loses value when Elon shitpost on Twitter, right?
- perl4ever 5y ago
  BTC seems to be about 10 times more volatile than the dollar on a daily basis. Like, last friday, the dollar was down about 0.4% and BTC was up or down 4-5% intraday. This seems to me kind of like the argument that the government is "just" another gang of armed bandits. There is a huge amount of value in predictable taxation rather than random robbery. Partly because of the variance, and partly because government has more of a long term interest in the viability of the citizenry, even if it weren't especially democratic per se. And similarly, there's a huge value in a currency that gradually loses value over time rather than being up or down 5% in a day and 30% in a few weeks. The whole point of currency is that it's not a long term investment asset, but a tool for trade, isn't it? So why would long run inflation be relevant?
  - a1369209993 5y ago
    > BTC seems to be about 10 times more volatile than the dollar on a daily basis. They're not talking about volatility; they're talking about the average trend over time.
    - perl4ever 5y ago
      I know. My point was this is the wrong focus, because of what currency is by nature. Short term volatility is a big disadvantage, while gradual loss in value doesn't matter for something that's not a long term investment. I owe way more money than I have in cash, as does almost everyone, and my loans being in nominal currency, inflation only helps.
      - a1369209993 5y ago
        > My point was this is the wrong focus, because of what currency is by nature. Ah, fair enough. That said: > I owe way more money than I have in cash, as does almost everyone, and my loans being in nominal currency, inflation only helps. This only works if you have a effective means of prohibiting (any) interest on those loans (ie anti-usury laws that actually have teeth). Otherwise the lender just bakes inflation into the interest.
- Qwertious 5y ago
  How is that different to investing in any other asset and then selling when you need to spend fiat currency, though?
jazzyjackson 5y ago
I convert my bank deposits to cash before spending it. It's not like there's cash in a vault with my name on it, I ask to withdraw cash and my checking account is debited. Doesn't seem so different than an exchange.
- Closi 5y ago
  It’s entirely different, because you are transacting in the same currency without an exchange mechanism required. This is important in days like today, where a coffee would cost more in BTC this evening than it would have this morning - how do I know how many BTC I have spent without referring to the current market price in USD and calculating it?