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I suppose the "long term customers" for these GPUs are gamers, right? Don't they also come and go? I don't particularly follow this as I'm not really into games

I suppose the "long term customers" for these GPUs are gamers, right? Don't they also come and go? I don't particularly follow this as I'm not really into games, but it seems to me that AMD has had quite an impressive growth recently. Does that mainly come from people new to the market? I'm actually a "new to the market" buyer, and I bought an AMD mostly because I'm mainly a Linux user and didn't want to take any chances with nvidia given the horror stories I've seen floating around these parts. The issue with the GPU market is that since it's a duopoly, customers don't really have anywhere else to go. My impression is that people mostly bounce between the two. I'm not sure how many people have that much of a "brand loyalty", especially since this is the "enthusiast sector", so I guess people don't just buy whatever they find at the corner store. To me, this looks more like market segmentation, the same way that you can't run virtualization on their consumer products, and you can't have ECC RAM on consumer intel chips. I really don't think they're doing this from the goodness of their hearts towards those poor gamers who are priced out of the market, but because they figured that miners would be ready to pay more. Which is pretty obvious, since scalpers are managing to sell those at outrageous prices, someone has to be buying them, right?

slownews45 5y ago
The ecosystem nvidia has built and maintains is a KEY differentiator. Basically, for machine learning, AMD is nowhere - the ecosystem is on nvidia (provided you can buy their stuff). If they can't deliver, then whatever crazy thing AMD is trying in this space (been a few tries) may take hold more. Getting developers access to nvidia becomes key then - games / machine learning tooling etc all then gravitates that way. For gaming you do end up with some options. Nvidia / AMD / Intel. Wide range here, but been pretty steady need for graphics including top end and lower end options. The OEM's are also customers in this space, everyone going to remote work with virtualized workloads as well if they need a graphics option there and more. Yes, they are segmenting, but in short run they are giving up $ they would get by selling all stuff with full Eth enabled and perhaps auctioning cards. They'd make a ton in short run, but a few user bases would abandon them. It really is not going to be good for their business if they have another 6 months of supply issues.
lacker 5y ago
It isn't the "goodness of their hearts", Nvidia just wants to maintain their position as the market leader in the markets that will be there for a long time. Gamers is one such market. Some gamers are loyal to a particular brand of graphics card, but there are also just network effects to being the most popular. Game designers spend extra effort making sure their games work well on the most popular video cards. Influential people like YouTubers, streamers, or game reviewers are more likely to buy elite hardware and talk about what they got. Market segmentation would only really make sense if Nvidia were capable of saturating all the demand from miners, and wanted to squeeze out some extra margin from them. But right now it doesn't seem like Nvidia is actually able to manufacture enough to meet the market demand at $800 like they initially intended.
chrisan 5y ago
> Don't they also come and go? Myself and most of my gaming friends have been buying nvidia cards for (soon to be) decades now. Basically since 3dfx went belly up
josefx 5y ago
Gamers need games to play and if gamers buy more AMD cards because high end NVIDIA is not an option then game developers will focus their efforts more towards AMD. Going by steam NVIDIA currently has three quarters of the PC Gaming market cornered, that is a lot of motivation to focus development on their hardware and an edge they do not want to loose. https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey
babypuncher 5y ago
Gaming demand is fairly constant, while mining demand ebbs and flows with the value of cryptos. Last time this peaked was in early 2018. Nvidia knows their loyal, regular customers are PC gamers, so it's in their best interest to make sure these customers get the best buying experience to ensure they stay repeat customers.
Qwertious 5y ago
It's a matter of loyalty - miners have zero loyalty and will always buy whatever their spreadsheet says is cheapest. In contrast, gamers tend to stick with brands, and if they're forced to switch due to lack of supply, their loyalty (and therefore future bias toward you company) might switch with it. So while miners may be willing to pay more money per card today, they're not worth the future loss of revenue. Like you said, you don't buy Nvidia because you're concerned about Nvidia support. If Nvidia was the only option, you would likely decide "fuck it", deal with any Nvidia problems (and become more familiar with running Nvidia) and become less concerned about Nvidia problems in the future because you have more experience dealing with them. And that means AMD may have lost future sales to you.
- vladvasiliu 5y ago
  Fair enough, I must have underestimated the loyalty part. Probably because I'm not much of a gamer and hardly have brand loyalty in general. I always tend to compare products and buy what seems to be the better value.

slownews45 5y ago

The ecosystem nvidia has built and maintains is a KEY differentiator. Basically, for machine learning, AMD is nowhere - the ecosystem is on nvidia (provided you can buy their stuff). If they can't deliver, then whatever crazy thing AMD is trying in this space (been a few tries) may take hold more. Getting developers access to nvidia becomes key then - games / machine learning tooling etc all then gravitates that way. For gaming you do end up with some options. Nvidia / AMD / Intel. Wide range here, but been pretty steady need for graphics including top end and lower end options. The OEM's are also customers in this space, everyone going to remote work with virtualized workloads as well if they need a graphics option there and more. Yes, they are segmenting, but in short run they are giving up $ they would get by selling all stuff with full Eth enabled and perhaps auctioning cards. They'd make a ton in short run, but a few user bases would abandon them. It really is not going to be good for their business if they have another 6 months of supply issues.

lacker 5y ago

It isn't the "goodness of their hearts", Nvidia just wants to maintain their position as the market leader in the markets that will be there for a long time. Gamers is one such market. Some gamers are loyal to a particular brand of graphics card, but there are also just network effects to being the most popular. Game designers spend extra effort making sure their games work well on the most popular video cards. Influential people like YouTubers, streamers, or game reviewers are more likely to buy elite hardware and talk about what they got. Market segmentation would only really make sense if Nvidia were capable of saturating all the demand from miners, and wanted to squeeze out some extra margin from them. But right now it doesn't seem like Nvidia is actually able to manufacture enough to meet the market demand at $800 like they initially intended.

chrisan 5y ago

> Don't they also come and go? Myself and most of my gaming friends have been buying nvidia cards for (soon to be) decades now. Basically since 3dfx went belly up

josefx 5y ago

Gamers need games to play and if gamers buy more AMD cards because high end NVIDIA is not an option then game developers will focus their efforts more towards AMD. Going by steam NVIDIA currently has three quarters of the PC Gaming market cornered, that is a lot of motivation to focus development on their hardware and an edge they do not want to loose. https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey

babypuncher 5y ago

Gaming demand is fairly constant, while mining demand ebbs and flows with the value of cryptos. Last time this peaked was in early 2018. Nvidia knows their loyal, regular customers are PC gamers, so it's in their best interest to make sure these customers get the best buying experience to ensure they stay repeat customers.

Qwertious 5y ago

It's a matter of loyalty - miners have zero loyalty and will always buy whatever their spreadsheet says is cheapest. In contrast, gamers tend to stick with brands, and if they're forced to switch due to lack of supply, their loyalty (and therefore future bias toward you company) might switch with it. So while miners may be willing to pay more money per card today, they're not worth the future loss of revenue. Like you said, you don't buy Nvidia because you're concerned about Nvidia support. If Nvidia was the only option, you would likely decide "fuck it", deal with any Nvidia problems (and become more familiar with running Nvidia) and become less concerned about Nvidia problems in the future because you have more experience dealing with them. And that means AMD may have lost future sales to you.

vladvasiliu 5y ago
Fair enough, I must have underestimated the loyalty part. Probably because I'm not much of a gamer and hardly have brand loyalty in general. I always tend to compare products and buy what seems to be the better value.