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I mine on renewables and with 3000 series gpus. I didn’t want to do any of this, I ended up here because my energy retailer decided to tax me for exporting too

I mine on renewables and with 3000 series gpus. I didn’t want to do any of this, I ended up here because my energy retailer decided to tax me for exporting too much energy to the grid. So short of earthing the electricity, my solution was to burn it up in mining, and improve my solar roi. The 3000 series gpus are the most efficient hashes/watt. So actually by disabling this, you are driving people towards less efficient/worse for the environment ASICS machines. Yes I batteried my home, and use my solar on everything I can first... there is still excess... especially at peak. Pretty sure this dismantled most of your argument.

Axien 5y ago
Out of curiosity, has the mining yet payed for the rig/card?
- onethought 5y ago
  No where near. But if you factor the tax I was paying (I.e assuming I didn’t earth it). It will reach cost neutral in a year and be returning margin after that. They are increasing this tax as well shortly... so it will get better.
istorical 5y ago
You are the exception of all exceptions. What percentage of GPUs being purchased for the purposes of crypto are for reasons like yours vs being bought by already wealthy conglomerates and mining groups to further enrich the new crypto multi-millionaire/billionaire class.
- onethought 5y ago
  Aren’t wealthy just buying giant TH asic machines? The gpus are good exactly because they are efficient but if you didn’t care about power consumption, ASICS are more profitable (in terms of cost of setup vs return from mining). The primary reason I went with gpus, is because I can shut them off based on solar excess in 100w increments. So if I’m 200w in excess, turn 2 cards on. 300w - 3 cards etc.
  - esyir 5y ago
    They're not. Asics are more a function of the coin being mined. Namely, if asics are out and competitive, they generally replace gpus altogether as they're both more powerful and efficient. See btc, where gpu mining is completely worthless. Eth on the other hand has no notable asic out AFAIK, and requires gpu mining. Eth miners, regardless of scale, thus require gpus.
    - onethought 5y ago
      btc mining isn't worthless - just you don't directly mine. You sell your compute to the pools.
icoder 5y ago
This is a bit of a two wrongs don't make a right: the fact that your energy retailer is taxing you doesn't (by itself) make it 'right' to use that energy for mining. Ofcourse I totally understand you do as you do, on an individual basis, but that just stresses the point that this can only be regulated at the group/population level.
- onethought 5y ago
  Not really. I’m not sure I even believe the “grids weren’t designed for feed in” bs. Wires don’t care where the electrons come from, and they have no problem with me drawing the same load I feed in... so something doesn’t add up. But I’m no electrician... just cry a little at 7-10kw excess that i either have to pay to feed in or earth. I don’t see anything I’m doing as a wrong. Literally just wasted energy... why not convert it to $?
  - shagie 5y ago
    https://www.landisgyr.com/ezine-article/making-way-two-way-power-flows-planning-control-matters/ https://www.landisgyr.com/ezine-article/making-way-two-way-p... > In the old days, when power companies were the only generators in town, control devices like regulators, capacitors or relays were designed to assume that power flowed in only one direction. “If they saw power flowing in the other direction, they typically tripped or misbehaved, causing customer outages or power quality issues,” Kuloor says. This tendency has prompted many utilities to update such equipment with reverse-power-flow logic or, in the case of mechanical devices that have no software, replace devices altogether. Not all local grids are prepared for that. Additionally, there's the signaling of power supply that generators do between each other. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility_frequency#Frequency_and_load https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility_frequency#Frequency_an... https://solarbuildermag.com/policy/grid-saturation-lessons-from-australia-and-hawaii/ https://solarbuildermag.com/policy/grid-saturation-lessons-f... The different parts of the grid will use fluctuations in the frequency of the grid to indicate if they've got too much power, or can't supply enough. This can get more complicated with single house putting power back in that they're matching the frequency, but not controlling it as such. If there is too much supply from single house sources, it can cause the frequency of the grid to vary too much and potentially damage the power plant generators. When this becomes exaggerated - all the houses start producing more power because the sun came out (or the opposite that it clouds over), this can increase the costs for power. You've also got the Hawaii problem. The Hawaii grid doesn't have the luxury of shipping its power to the next state over. https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2020/02/05/how-to-solve-hawaiis-solar-and-storage-problems/ https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2020/02/05/how-to-solve-hawaiis-... https://www.hakaimagazine.com/features/the-hot-mess-of-hawaiis-renewable-power-push/ https://www.hakaimagazine.com/features/the-hot-mess-of-hawai... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_in_Hawaii https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_in_Hawaii https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/plugged-in/3-reasons-hawaii-put-the-brakes-on-solar-and-why-the-same-won-t-happen-in-your-state/ https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/plugged-in/3-reasons-ha... There are times when the rooftop solar in Hawaii exceeded the total demand for power. This meant there was too much power in the wires and that generators needed to shut down (or get into problems with pollution and inefficient combustion). > The grid can only accept as much power as the island is consuming. Juario must mix and match different sized generators to balance what solar rooftops are producing while ensuring that the generators have enough “spinning reserve”—room to throttle up and down to handle those grid surprises. The Maui Electric chief operator must also keep the generators running hot to prevent inefficient combustion from sending dirtier exhaust up the stacks and violating the air quality rules that protect residents’ health. https://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/renewables/can-smarter-solar-inverters-save-the-grid https://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/renewables/can-smarter-sola... has a neat map. There were sections of Hawaii where solar was supplying 250% of the demand in that area. https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2018/11/30/17868620/renewable-energy-power-grid-architecture https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2018/11/30/178686... is another useful bit to read. "electrical grid oversupply" is the term to search.

Axien 5y ago

Out of curiosity, has the mining yet payed for the rig/card?

onethought 5y ago
No where near. But if you factor the tax I was paying (I.e assuming I didn’t earth it). It will reach cost neutral in a year and be returning margin after that. They are increasing this tax as well shortly... so it will get better.

istorical 5y ago

You are the exception of all exceptions. What percentage of GPUs being purchased for the purposes of crypto are for reasons like yours vs being bought by already wealthy conglomerates and mining groups to further enrich the new crypto multi-millionaire/billionaire class.

onethought 5y ago
Aren’t wealthy just buying giant TH asic machines? The gpus are good exactly because they are efficient but if you didn’t care about power consumption, ASICS are more profitable (in terms of cost of setup vs return from mining). The primary reason I went with gpus, is because I can shut them off based on solar excess in 100w increments. So if I’m 200w in excess, turn 2 cards on. 300w - 3 cards etc.
- esyir 5y ago
  They're not. Asics are more a function of the coin being mined. Namely, if asics are out and competitive, they generally replace gpus altogether as they're both more powerful and efficient. See btc, where gpu mining is completely worthless. Eth on the other hand has no notable asic out AFAIK, and requires gpu mining. Eth miners, regardless of scale, thus require gpus.
  - onethought 5y ago
    btc mining isn't worthless - just you don't directly mine. You sell your compute to the pools.

icoder 5y ago

This is a bit of a two wrongs don't make a right: the fact that your energy retailer is taxing you doesn't (by itself) make it 'right' to use that energy for mining. Ofcourse I totally understand you do as you do, on an individual basis, but that just stresses the point that this can only be regulated at the group/population level.

onethought 5y ago
Not really. I’m not sure I even believe the “grids weren’t designed for feed in” bs. Wires don’t care where the electrons come from, and they have no problem with me drawing the same load I feed in... so something doesn’t add up. But I’m no electrician... just cry a little at 7-10kw excess that i either have to pay to feed in or earth. I don’t see anything I’m doing as a wrong. Literally just wasted energy... why not convert it to $?
- shagie 5y ago
  https://www.landisgyr.com/ezine-article/making-way-two-way-power-flows-planning-control-matters/ https://www.landisgyr.com/ezine-article/making-way-two-way-p... > In the old days, when power companies were the only generators in town, control devices like regulators, capacitors or relays were designed to assume that power flowed in only one direction. “If they saw power flowing in the other direction, they typically tripped or misbehaved, causing customer outages or power quality issues,” Kuloor says. This tendency has prompted many utilities to update such equipment with reverse-power-flow logic or, in the case of mechanical devices that have no software, replace devices altogether. Not all local grids are prepared for that. Additionally, there's the signaling of power supply that generators do between each other. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility_frequency#Frequency_and_load https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility_frequency#Frequency_an... https://solarbuildermag.com/policy/grid-saturation-lessons-from-australia-and-hawaii/ https://solarbuildermag.com/policy/grid-saturation-lessons-f... The different parts of the grid will use fluctuations in the frequency of the grid to indicate if they've got too much power, or can't supply enough. This can get more complicated with single house putting power back in that they're matching the frequency, but not controlling it as such. If there is too much supply from single house sources, it can cause the frequency of the grid to vary too much and potentially damage the power plant generators. When this becomes exaggerated - all the houses start producing more power because the sun came out (or the opposite that it clouds over), this can increase the costs for power. You've also got the Hawaii problem. The Hawaii grid doesn't have the luxury of shipping its power to the next state over. https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2020/02/05/how-to-solve-hawaiis-solar-and-storage-problems/ https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2020/02/05/how-to-solve-hawaiis-... https://www.hakaimagazine.com/features/the-hot-mess-of-hawaiis-renewable-power-push/ https://www.hakaimagazine.com/features/the-hot-mess-of-hawai... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_in_Hawaii https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_in_Hawaii https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/plugged-in/3-reasons-hawaii-put-the-brakes-on-solar-and-why-the-same-won-t-happen-in-your-state/ https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/plugged-in/3-reasons-ha... There are times when the rooftop solar in Hawaii exceeded the total demand for power. This meant there was too much power in the wires and that generators needed to shut down (or get into problems with pollution and inefficient combustion). > The grid can only accept as much power as the island is consuming. Juario must mix and match different sized generators to balance what solar rooftops are producing while ensuring that the generators have enough “spinning reserve”—room to throttle up and down to handle those grid surprises. The Maui Electric chief operator must also keep the generators running hot to prevent inefficient combustion from sending dirtier exhaust up the stacks and violating the air quality rules that protect residents’ health. https://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/renewables/can-smarter-solar-inverters-save-the-grid https://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/renewables/can-smarter-sola... has a neat map. There were sections of Hawaii where solar was supplying 250% of the demand in that area. https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2018/11/30/17868620/renewable-energy-power-grid-architecture https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2018/11/30/178686... is another useful bit to read. "electrical grid oversupply" is the term to search.