4 ms·

A lot of this is cultural, imo. I grew up in Eastern Europe, where it's very common to have two people talking exactly in that way about a common topic: "X? Yea

A lot of this is cultural, imo. I grew up in Eastern Europe, where it's very common to have two people talking exactly in that way about a common topic: "X? Yeah, my mom Y". It took me a while to learn that I can come across as self-absorbed and obnoxious in the US when speaking that way, so I have to consciously remember to ask questions about the person or the topic they presented, and avoid introducing my own related topic, but then I never know when it's OK or how to actually switch topics (since, like the article mentions, conversations do flow from on topic to another) and I become anxious during the conversation. Even this comment is about me. Could someone suggest how I could have responded in a way that doesn't sound self-absorbed?

simtel20 5y ago
First, please don't take this as a personal criticism, or that I'm saying that you do sound self-absorbed - we are in a comment section where people share their own experiences and opinions, so I don't think that expressing yourself in the first person is in any way negative. However, to answer your question about how to appear less "self-involved", perhaps there's a structural trick you can use, which is to shift some of your writing from first-person to second-person and speak from the outside? How does this sound to you: "It can take a while to learn that this can come across as self-absorbed and obnoxious in the US when speaking that way, so I've learned to consciously remember to ask questions about the person or the topic they presented, and void introducing related topics. This does make it more challenging to know when it's OK or how to actually switch topics (since, like the article mentions, conversations do flow from one topic to another) and this uncertainty can be anxiety-inducing" I'm not saying it's essential, but as an exercise if you imaging talking about the situation that way, it can influence the tone. I will repeat that I think your fear about sounding self-absorbed does not come out, to me, in your paragraph. I have worked with colleagues whose conversations do wander off on their own tangents if they're not asked to focus, and that may be similar to what you're talking about? But I can't be sure. If so, that is the difference between conversation for its own sake where sharing and opinion and life experiences are related, and workplace conversations which often have an objective, etc.
drusepth 5y ago
Yeah, I grew up in the Midwest and even there it's super common to respond to X with a personal anecdote about X. I think it makes the conversation more personal. Anyone can say, "Oh cool! What songs have you learned?" Only _you_ (you know, the friend they chose to talk to) can say, "Oh, that's cool! My grandpa gave me a cool guitar that I've been meaning to learn to play." I find the best approach is to sandwich a personal anecdote between two "you" statements for the people who need a prompt to carry the conversation. For example, "That's really interesting. I've also been thinking about learning guitar. How are you liking your lessons?"
- thatcat 5y ago
  This is a good point, it creates a dynamic with more bilateral exchange and gives them an opportunity to ask a follow up if they're interested.
lucasmullens 5y ago
I only find that obnoxious when they come of as "one-upping" the other person. Maybe I'm wrong and people secretly think I'm obnoxious, but I think it's a good thing to quickly mention something like "my mom Y" to show your familiarity with a topic, so the other person knows how much detail they need to give when talking about it. Like, if they're explaining what a certain company does in detail, and your mom works there, you should probably let them know before they explain a ton of stuff you already know. I think the key is just to steer the conversation back quickly. If you derail it talking about yourself, steer it back with something like "So how did you like X?"
staticassertion 5y ago
I strongly suggest not worrying about what some HN users believe is self absorbed.
exporectomy 5y ago
There's a name for doing that too much, "conversational narcissism". Example from a quick search: James: I’m thinking about buying a new car. Rob: Oh yeah? I’m thinking about buying a new car too. James: Really? Rob: Yup, I just test drove a Mustang yesterday and it was awesome. I think if you actually go back to the original topic straight after, it isn't going to bother people much but if you keep talking about your thing and not showing deep understanding of theirs, it can feel like you only heard some keywords and didn't even bother to listen to what they were actually saying.

simtel20 5y ago

First, please don't take this as a personal criticism, or that I'm saying that you do sound self-absorbed - we are in a comment section where people share their own experiences and opinions, so I don't think that expressing yourself in the first person is in any way negative. However, to answer your question about how to appear less "self-involved", perhaps there's a structural trick you can use, which is to shift some of your writing from first-person to second-person and speak from the outside? How does this sound to you: "It can take a while to learn that this can come across as self-absorbed and obnoxious in the US when speaking that way, so I've learned to consciously remember to ask questions about the person or the topic they presented, and void introducing related topics. This does make it more challenging to know when it's OK or how to actually switch topics (since, like the article mentions, conversations do flow from one topic to another) and this uncertainty can be anxiety-inducing" I'm not saying it's essential, but as an exercise if you imaging talking about the situation that way, it can influence the tone. I will repeat that I think your fear about sounding self-absorbed does not come out, to me, in your paragraph. I have worked with colleagues whose conversations do wander off on their own tangents if they're not asked to focus, and that may be similar to what you're talking about? But I can't be sure. If so, that is the difference between conversation for its own sake where sharing and opinion and life experiences are related, and workplace conversations which often have an objective, etc.

drusepth 5y ago

Yeah, I grew up in the Midwest and even there it's super common to respond to X with a personal anecdote about X. I think it makes the conversation more personal. Anyone can say, "Oh cool! What songs have you learned?" Only _you_ (you know, the friend they chose to talk to) can say, "Oh, that's cool! My grandpa gave me a cool guitar that I've been meaning to learn to play." I find the best approach is to sandwich a personal anecdote between two "you" statements for the people who need a prompt to carry the conversation. For example, "That's really interesting. I've also been thinking about learning guitar. How are you liking your lessons?"

thatcat 5y ago
This is a good point, it creates a dynamic with more bilateral exchange and gives them an opportunity to ask a follow up if they're interested.

lucasmullens 5y ago

I only find that obnoxious when they come of as "one-upping" the other person. Maybe I'm wrong and people secretly think I'm obnoxious, but I think it's a good thing to quickly mention something like "my mom Y" to show your familiarity with a topic, so the other person knows how much detail they need to give when talking about it. Like, if they're explaining what a certain company does in detail, and your mom works there, you should probably let them know before they explain a ton of stuff you already know. I think the key is just to steer the conversation back quickly. If you derail it talking about yourself, steer it back with something like "So how did you like X?"

staticassertion 5y ago

I strongly suggest not worrying about what some HN users believe is self absorbed.

exporectomy 5y ago

There's a name for doing that too much, "conversational narcissism". Example from a quick search: James: I’m thinking about buying a new car. Rob: Oh yeah? I’m thinking about buying a new car too. James: Really? Rob: Yup, I just test drove a Mustang yesterday and it was awesome. I think if you actually go back to the original topic straight after, it isn't going to bother people much but if you keep talking about your thing and not showing deep understanding of theirs, it can feel like you only heard some keywords and didn't even bother to listen to what they were actually saying.