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There's a whole book written about the history of this: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/57429394-the-blocksize-war https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/57429

There's a whole book written about the history of this: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/57429394-the-blocksize-war https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/57429394-the-blocksize-w... "Roughly 90% of the hash power once threatened to change the rules of #Bitcoin believing the users didn’t matter in the decision. The users spun up 10s of thousands of full nodes & told them to go f*ck themselves." [1] [1] https://twitter.com/TheCryptoconomy/status/1394006548876308485?s=20 https://twitter.com/TheCryptoconomy/status/13940065488763084...

dahfizz 5y ago
Why wouldn't a similar "takeover" be possible in a PoS system? You really haven't addressed the parent's point.
- fredfoobar 5y ago
  [responding to the pre-edit question about PoW] I just did, you don't need any capital to run a node. The book documents an incident where there was majority hash-rate (miners) wanting to change the rules against the wishes of the users. more info: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IT4s-6T__k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IT4s-6T__k
  - crispyporkbites 5y ago
    But at scale you need lots of nodes/computational power and therefore lots of money. It doesn’t really make a difference whether you buy graphics cards in a pow world or ethereum in a pos world, you need lots of capital to be influential. Now if we could make it Proof of Human, one vote, one person, non-transferable, that would be true distributed consensus. Even then you would get people buying votes with advertising as we see today in “normal” elections.
    - fredfoobar 5y ago
      > But at scale you need lots of nodes/computational power and therefore lots of money. It doesn’t really make a difference whether you buy graphics cards in a pow world or ethereum in a pos world, you need lots of capital to be influential. You're missing the energy part of the equation (opex), that is continuously required.
  - hanniabu 5y ago
    > you don't need any capital to run a node Please point me in the direction where I can find some of these free ASIC miners.....
    - fredfoobar 5y ago
      full node != miner Run your own full node, easiest option: getumbrel.com
- SilasX 5y ago
  Did you mean PoS? Parent was talking about a PoW system.
  - dahfizz 5y ago
    Yes, editted.
- grubles 5y ago
  You can do much worse things in a PoS system since power in the system is tied to the asset (ETH). Ethereum DeFi toys are hacked on a daily basis and millions upon millions of dollars worth of ETH is stolen. It's exactly why the DAO hacker was censored -- they controlled more ETH than any single account in the system.
ekerstein 5y ago
This is only relevant if people aren’t holding their coins on exchanges. Most users are and that concentration will increase as transaction fees are designed to do over the next decade.
- fredfoobar 5y ago
  I'm here to help that transition, It's already happening, many folks I know are transitioning to a hardware wallet. I've personally helped people onboard on to lightning and running their own node. The whole process of running your own node has improved so much nowadays: getumbrel.com comes to mind.
vbuterin 5y ago
That was about users' nodes being able to validate blocks; that's an orthogonal issue from PoW vs PoS.
- jude- 5y ago
  Coins that no ones' nodes validate are worthless, aren't they?
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
owens99 5y ago
You're smart, I like your comments.

dahfizz 5y ago

Why wouldn't a similar "takeover" be possible in a PoS system? You really haven't addressed the parent's point.

fredfoobar 5y ago
[responding to the pre-edit question about PoW] I just did, you don't need any capital to run a node. The book documents an incident where there was majority hash-rate (miners) wanting to change the rules against the wishes of the users. more info: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IT4s-6T__k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IT4s-6T__k
- crispyporkbites 5y ago
  But at scale you need lots of nodes/computational power and therefore lots of money. It doesn’t really make a difference whether you buy graphics cards in a pow world or ethereum in a pos world, you need lots of capital to be influential. Now if we could make it Proof of Human, one vote, one person, non-transferable, that would be true distributed consensus. Even then you would get people buying votes with advertising as we see today in “normal” elections.
  - fredfoobar 5y ago
    > But at scale you need lots of nodes/computational power and therefore lots of money. It doesn’t really make a difference whether you buy graphics cards in a pow world or ethereum in a pos world, you need lots of capital to be influential. You're missing the energy part of the equation (opex), that is continuously required.
- hanniabu 5y ago
  > you don't need any capital to run a node Please point me in the direction where I can find some of these free ASIC miners.....
  - fredfoobar 5y ago
    full node != miner Run your own full node, easiest option: getumbrel.com
SilasX 5y ago
Did you mean PoS? Parent was talking about a PoW system.
- dahfizz 5y ago
  Yes, editted.
grubles 5y ago
You can do much worse things in a PoS system since power in the system is tied to the asset (ETH). Ethereum DeFi toys are hacked on a daily basis and millions upon millions of dollars worth of ETH is stolen. It's exactly why the DAO hacker was censored -- they controlled more ETH than any single account in the system.

ekerstein 5y ago

This is only relevant if people aren’t holding their coins on exchanges. Most users are and that concentration will increase as transaction fees are designed to do over the next decade.

fredfoobar 5y ago
I'm here to help that transition, It's already happening, many folks I know are transitioning to a hardware wallet. I've personally helped people onboard on to lightning and running their own node. The whole process of running your own node has improved so much nowadays: getumbrel.com comes to mind.

vbuterin 5y ago

That was about users' nodes being able to validate blocks; that's an orthogonal issue from PoW vs PoS.

jude- 5y ago
Coins that no ones' nodes validate are worthless, aren't they?

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

owens99 5y ago

You're smart, I like your comments.