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People really out here acting like all of Russia is on the sanction list. Its like the head of Sbersbank and a few companies and a few individuals, and that's

People really out here acting like all of Russia is on the sanction list. Its like the head of Sbersbank and a few companies and a few individuals, and that's it. There is practically no way for this to be a real rebuttal or conversation. Companies can pay ransoms, intermediaries can pay ransoms. There is no legal quagmire. Why would you accept a pseudonymous cryptocurrency in a country you can't even get financial records from the fiat offramps, and use a pseudonym that matched your actual name on the OFAC list? Let alone just not being a person that is on the OFAC list. This is so improbable, the US Treasury can pound sand.

matheusmoreira 5y ago
The US treasury sanctioned a Monero transaction identifier once. https://www.treasury.gov/ofac/downloads/sdnlist.txt https://www.treasury.gov/ofac/downloads/sdnlist.txt https://localmonero.co/blocks/search/5be5543ff73456ab9f2d207887e2af87322c651ea1a873c5b25b7ffae456c320 https://localmonero.co/blocks/search/5be5543ff73456ab9f2d207... > Digital Currency Address - XMR 5be5543ff73456ab9f2d207887e2af87322c651ea1a873c5b25b7ffae456c320; Kind of embarrassing...
- vmception 5y ago
  lmao, sand is being pounded for anyone passing by: it is impossible to tell from blockchain analysis if anybody sent a payment to a particular Monero address, as neither sender, recipient or amount is stored in transaction data or onchain anywhere. Even client side, the data is limited. Even if the US Treasury seized the recipient's wallet and had it open to look at all transaction history, Monero protocol doesn't tell you what address payments were received from, so the US Treasury would not be able to use their wallet and then compare it to US exchanges or other covered persons to say those people violated sanctions. On the contrary, I do think Monero wallets show what address you sent to, so if they seized an exchange or a covered person's wallet they could see if they sent to that sanctioned address. But of course, the person on the OFAC list has infinite subaddresses to rotate to.
  - nitrogen 5y ago
    If they have seized enough wallets, can they conduct flow analysis to infer where money is going anyway?
    - vmception 5y ago
      Maybe? All the governments around the world have only seized a handful of wallets, so to me it seems like an improbable risk. Most of those seizures were only possible via user-error and non-chalant storage of these kinds of assets. You have to go to individuals and force them to give a password to derive a private key. Without use of force, many governments don't have a legal power to force people to open things. With hacking even on-premise, there are still extremely high barriers per wallet which makes it basically impossible. With use of force they will still have a challenge with too high of a crowd and will still lack the legal rationale to do so. And everyone can own this asset without the state knowing of it.
Joker_vD 5y ago
> and that's it. Plus effectively all of Crimean-based Russian citizens and companies, but yeah, that's it.

matheusmoreira 5y ago

The US treasury sanctioned a Monero transaction identifier once. https://www.treasury.gov/ofac/downloads/sdnlist.txt https://www.treasury.gov/ofac/downloads/sdnlist.txt https://localmonero.co/blocks/search/5be5543ff73456ab9f2d207887e2af87322c651ea1a873c5b25b7ffae456c320 https://localmonero.co/blocks/search/5be5543ff73456ab9f2d207... > Digital Currency Address - XMR 5be5543ff73456ab9f2d207887e2af87322c651ea1a873c5b25b7ffae456c320; Kind of embarrassing...

vmception 5y ago
lmao, sand is being pounded for anyone passing by: it is impossible to tell from blockchain analysis if anybody sent a payment to a particular Monero address, as neither sender, recipient or amount is stored in transaction data or onchain anywhere. Even client side, the data is limited. Even if the US Treasury seized the recipient's wallet and had it open to look at all transaction history, Monero protocol doesn't tell you what address payments were received from, so the US Treasury would not be able to use their wallet and then compare it to US exchanges or other covered persons to say those people violated sanctions. On the contrary, I do think Monero wallets show what address you sent to, so if they seized an exchange or a covered person's wallet they could see if they sent to that sanctioned address. But of course, the person on the OFAC list has infinite subaddresses to rotate to.
- nitrogen 5y ago
  If they have seized enough wallets, can they conduct flow analysis to infer where money is going anyway?
  - vmception 5y ago
    Maybe? All the governments around the world have only seized a handful of wallets, so to me it seems like an improbable risk. Most of those seizures were only possible via user-error and non-chalant storage of these kinds of assets. You have to go to individuals and force them to give a password to derive a private key. Without use of force, many governments don't have a legal power to force people to open things. With hacking even on-premise, there are still extremely high barriers per wallet which makes it basically impossible. With use of force they will still have a challenge with too high of a crowd and will still lack the legal rationale to do so. And everyone can own this asset without the state knowing of it.

Joker_vD 5y ago

> and that's it. Plus effectively all of Crimean-based Russian citizens and companies, but yeah, that's it.