4 ms·

> That's not even a lot! Apple, Google & FB have $200bn, $140bn & $65bn respectively. Dividends don't seem to be a thing, and it's basically impossible to inves

> That's not even a lot! Apple, Google & FB have $200bn, $140bn & $65bn respectively. Dividends don't seem to be a thing, and it's basically impossible to invest this much cash internally. These companies don't have factories to build, or any kind of hard capital investments to make. Apple arguably does have factories to build, given how utterly dependent on China it is.

UncleOxidant 5y ago
This. Apple should be looking into buying a semiconductor company and building more fabs. Preferably US based. Maybe Micron or TI. Micron's market cap is ~90B. TI's is about ~170B, so probably Micron.
- cle 5y ago
  Honestly I would be sad to see vertical consolidation like that. But given all the hype around M1 and the translation to $$$, it wouldn't surprise me.
- kodah 5y ago
  I really would hate to see Texas Instruments bought and buried by a coastal company. The Midwest really needs some of its own tech giants to drive their economies. I suspect TI would be absent from North Texas if Apple bought them or they'd participate in the typical nastiness of moving all engineering to the coast and leaving sales and marketing in it's wake.
  - duped 5y ago
    Major nitpick but Texas is most certainly not part of the midwest. And acquisition is the wrong thing to fear, backwards economic policies and divestment from urban centers and education while labor protections even for high skilled employees continue to be eroded are system problems outside of the coastal hubs. Texans and midwesterners should be afraid of how their governments are dropping the ball, not of coastal companies buying out the locals. But the bigger scare of TI being acquired is that they are a major manufacturer of commodity components and Apple is a vertically integrated consumer electronics business. It would be devastating to American semiconductor marketplace if their portfolio was no longer available.
    - kodah 5y ago
      Sure, whatever region you want to call Texas feel free to call it that. It's largely arbitrary. The problem is that Dallas (and other areas) have been sucked dry of talent by tech companies for a while - even before the conservative economic policies you're handwaving about came into effect. Some of that is on the state for not being competitive enough, other parts of that have been on predatory practices by businesses that fuel things like state to state income inequality. Second, I don't need to be told what to be afraid of, so your condescending tone can take a listening stance. A software engineer in Dallas Texas doesn't make near the cost of living difference between a San Francisco job while doing the same thing and that is a problem. Full stop. That problem can be remedied by bringing more tech businesses to Texas and gating them out of the traditional coastal areas like New York, SF, Seattle, and Portland. There are other ways of remedying the problem and I'd love to hear them, but finger pointing at the Texas government without pointing at companies and other states sounds pretty fruitless.
      - conro1108 5y ago
        > A software engineer in Dallas Texas doesn't make near the cost of living difference between a San Francisco job while doing the same thing and that is a problem. Full stop. Why is that a problem? Do you feel that the same gap needs to be closed globally, or just within the US? > finger pointing at the Texas government without pointing at companies and other states I don't think anyone is finger pointing at the Texas government while ignoring companies and other states. GP is saying that Texas is doing thing X, coastal states are doing thing Y, leading to companies (and engineers) choosing the coastal states because they prefer Y.
        kodah 5y ago
        > Why is that a problem? Do you feel that the same gap needs to be closed globally, or just within the US? I'm sure you'd find it problematic if you're forced from an area just because of geo-pay. I can't build that kind of empathy for you though, you'll need to go find it. Nice whatabboutism on the second part. Yes, I think it needs to be closed on both. These companies produce digital products, not geographically sold ones. The contribution of an engineer in one place is the same as another, as long as the impact is the same. > GP is saying that Texas is doing thing X, coastal states are doing thing Y, leading to companies (and engineers) choosing the coastal states because they prefer Y. That's pretty much longer form of what I just said. The state can do things differently, but the state isn't even all or most of the answer. A lot of it has to do with wage suppression, which I covered above. Edit: I realize I come off a bit salty about this. I am. I am not conservative and this problem has personally impacted me. It's annoying to hear people speak about this with such utter lack of empathy, or rather that their political ideology comes shining through, but I get to most people it's probably just Tuesday.
dalbasal 5y ago
Perhaps, and there seems to be more movement in the direction of late. Makes sense, considering how much trouble they've had "putting money to work." That said, Apple have a hell of job turning $200bn into factories. The scale of money, currently... is quite something to live up to.
ksec 5y ago
They really don't. And neither do they need to buy SemiConductor Companies. Unlike most if not all other companies that outsource manufacturing. Apple still has the known how and detail view in not only the factory but the whole supply chain. They could, should they choose to, instantly assemble everything by themselves. Compared to other companies, they are making design changes and working with contract manufacture, but they have no idea how those machines in production actually works. Buying Semi or Fabs also doesn't make sense unless they intend to Fab for others.
- tablespoon 5y ago
  > Unlike most if not all other companies that outsource manufacturing. Apple still has the known how and detail view in not only the factory but the whole supply chain. They could, should they choose to, instantly assemble everything by themselves. They can't "instantly" assemble everything by themselves at the scale they need, because almost all their infrastructure and supply chain for that is located in China. My bet is that it would take them on the order of a decade to build up alternate infrastructure and supply changes, and that's assuming the detailed knowledge they have about their processes. This is an interesting article about how Apple's dependence has played out: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/17/technology/apple-china-censorship-data.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/17/technology/apple-china-ce....

UncleOxidant 5y ago

This. Apple should be looking into buying a semiconductor company and building more fabs. Preferably US based. Maybe Micron or TI. Micron's market cap is ~90B. TI's is about ~170B, so probably Micron.

cle 5y ago
Honestly I would be sad to see vertical consolidation like that. But given all the hype around M1 and the translation to $$$, it wouldn't surprise me.
kodah 5y ago
I really would hate to see Texas Instruments bought and buried by a coastal company. The Midwest really needs some of its own tech giants to drive their economies. I suspect TI would be absent from North Texas if Apple bought them or they'd participate in the typical nastiness of moving all engineering to the coast and leaving sales and marketing in it's wake.
- duped 5y ago
  Major nitpick but Texas is most certainly not part of the midwest. And acquisition is the wrong thing to fear, backwards economic policies and divestment from urban centers and education while labor protections even for high skilled employees continue to be eroded are system problems outside of the coastal hubs. Texans and midwesterners should be afraid of how their governments are dropping the ball, not of coastal companies buying out the locals. But the bigger scare of TI being acquired is that they are a major manufacturer of commodity components and Apple is a vertically integrated consumer electronics business. It would be devastating to American semiconductor marketplace if their portfolio was no longer available.
  - kodah 5y ago
    Sure, whatever region you want to call Texas feel free to call it that. It's largely arbitrary. The problem is that Dallas (and other areas) have been sucked dry of talent by tech companies for a while - even before the conservative economic policies you're handwaving about came into effect. Some of that is on the state for not being competitive enough, other parts of that have been on predatory practices by businesses that fuel things like state to state income inequality. Second, I don't need to be told what to be afraid of, so your condescending tone can take a listening stance. A software engineer in Dallas Texas doesn't make near the cost of living difference between a San Francisco job while doing the same thing and that is a problem. Full stop. That problem can be remedied by bringing more tech businesses to Texas and gating them out of the traditional coastal areas like New York, SF, Seattle, and Portland. There are other ways of remedying the problem and I'd love to hear them, but finger pointing at the Texas government without pointing at companies and other states sounds pretty fruitless.
    - conro1108 5y ago
      > A software engineer in Dallas Texas doesn't make near the cost of living difference between a San Francisco job while doing the same thing and that is a problem. Full stop. Why is that a problem? Do you feel that the same gap needs to be closed globally, or just within the US? > finger pointing at the Texas government without pointing at companies and other states I don't think anyone is finger pointing at the Texas government while ignoring companies and other states. GP is saying that Texas is doing thing X, coastal states are doing thing Y, leading to companies (and engineers) choosing the coastal states because they prefer Y.
      - kodah 5y ago
        > Why is that a problem? Do you feel that the same gap needs to be closed globally, or just within the US? I'm sure you'd find it problematic if you're forced from an area just because of geo-pay. I can't build that kind of empathy for you though, you'll need to go find it. Nice whatabboutism on the second part. Yes, I think it needs to be closed on both. These companies produce digital products, not geographically sold ones. The contribution of an engineer in one place is the same as another, as long as the impact is the same. > GP is saying that Texas is doing thing X, coastal states are doing thing Y, leading to companies (and engineers) choosing the coastal states because they prefer Y. That's pretty much longer form of what I just said. The state can do things differently, but the state isn't even all or most of the answer. A lot of it has to do with wage suppression, which I covered above. Edit: I realize I come off a bit salty about this. I am. I am not conservative and this problem has personally impacted me. It's annoying to hear people speak about this with such utter lack of empathy, or rather that their political ideology comes shining through, but I get to most people it's probably just Tuesday.

dalbasal 5y ago

Perhaps, and there seems to be more movement in the direction of late. Makes sense, considering how much trouble they've had "putting money to work." That said, Apple have a hell of job turning $200bn into factories. The scale of money, currently... is quite something to live up to.

ksec 5y ago

They really don't. And neither do they need to buy SemiConductor Companies. Unlike most if not all other companies that outsource manufacturing. Apple still has the known how and detail view in not only the factory but the whole supply chain. They could, should they choose to, instantly assemble everything by themselves. Compared to other companies, they are making design changes and working with contract manufacture, but they have no idea how those machines in production actually works. Buying Semi or Fabs also doesn't make sense unless they intend to Fab for others.

tablespoon 5y ago
> Unlike most if not all other companies that outsource manufacturing. Apple still has the known how and detail view in not only the factory but the whole supply chain. They could, should they choose to, instantly assemble everything by themselves. They can't "instantly" assemble everything by themselves at the scale they need, because almost all their infrastructure and supply chain for that is located in China. My bet is that it would take them on the order of a decade to build up alternate infrastructure and supply changes, and that's assuming the detailed knowledge they have about their processes. This is an interesting article about how Apple's dependence has played out: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/17/technology/apple-china-censorship-data.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/17/technology/apple-china-ce....