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Isn't it still quite insane that around 0.5% of our global energy usage is spent on bitcoin, though?

matheusmoreira 5y ago
Bitcoin? Yes, it's a useless coin. I wouldn't mind even higher amounts of energy being spent on Monero though. It's good that Ethereum is moving to proof of stake. Not because of some environmental impact though. Mining is just really expensive, it results in huge fees making the coin almost unusable for normal people.
- reedjosh 5y ago
  100% Monero is amazing. 1500+tps and it's just getting started. Faster transaction speeds, privacy, just awesome!
  - matheusmoreira 5y ago
    Yeah. It's essentially a perfected version of bitcoin. It should be the number one currency.
doggosphere 5y ago
Is it? Over time human energy creation and consumption has grown exponentially with technological innovation. Fire to cook meat, a wagon attached to an ox, combustion engines, air conditioning, wireless networks, data centers, etc. Today you probably consume more energy in a few days than your ancestors whole lives. Now, we've created distributed, immutable property, something that has never existed before. It turns electricity into value storage. What is the "correct" amount of energy for humans to spend on such a thing?
- hjek 5y ago
  > What is the "correct" amount of energy for humans to spend on such a thing? Perhaps the "correct" amount is less than what it would take to increase planet temperature by 4°C?
  - doggosphere 5y ago
    Energy consumption has nothing to do with increasing planet temperature, if Bitcoin consumed 10x the energy via solar panels, it would not have any environmental impact beyond the raw materials used in the panels. You're equating energy usage to carbon emissions, but you should be able to distinguish the difference.
    - hjek 5y ago
      > Energy consumption has nothing to do with increasing planet temperature, As long as we're using fossil fuels, planet temperature does in fact have something to do with energy consumption. You seem to be arguing that because renewable energy sources exists, Bitcoin has nothing to do with fossil fuel emissions. However, that is false, as 8% of Bitcoin mining happens in Inner Mongolia, which is home to many of China's large coal mines[0]. [0]: https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/bitcoin-mining-china-environment-b1811656.html https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/bi...
      - doggosphere 5y ago
        I'm arguing that China subsidizes coal[0], and that China does not utilize a carbon tax[1]. So when you call for a ban of Bitcoin in the name in environmental concerns, you've decided to be the arbiter of energy usage, on what is productive and valuable, and what is not. You're welcome to argue your points, but it would still be far more efficient and productive to addresses the actual core problem: coal fire plants, and energy prices. [0]: https://www.iisd.org/gsi/faqs/china https://www.iisd.org/gsi/faqs/china [1]: https://www.carbontax.org/issues/what-about-china/ https://www.carbontax.org/issues/what-about-china/
broighbrobroigh 5y ago
How much of our global energy usage is spent on poorly implemented ACPI code, Windows drivers, inefficient GPU drivers, etc... Even better, how much energy is wasted per page view due to inefficient frontend web frameworks? Seems to me that code is speech, and restricting what one can and can't do with silicon that one owns is absolutely ridiculous.
reedjosh 5y ago
How much energy maintains the USD's reserve status?
- matheusmoreira 5y ago
  According to some other comment on this thread: > a bunch of aircraft carriers and planes and bombs and people with big guns, which gives the ability to say (credibly) that it is a crime to forge dollars no matter who you are or where you live Cryptocurrency offers all this and more for a fraction of the price.

Bitcoin? Yes, it's a useless coin. I wouldn't mind even higher amounts of energy being spent on Monero though. It's good that Ethereum is moving to proof of stake. Not because of some environmental impact though. Mining is just really expensive, it results in huge fees making the coin almost unusable for normal people.

reedjosh 5y ago
100% Monero is amazing. 1500+tps and it's just getting started. Faster transaction speeds, privacy, just awesome!
- matheusmoreira 5y ago
  Yeah. It's essentially a perfected version of bitcoin. It should be the number one currency.

doggosphere 5y ago

Is it? Over time human energy creation and consumption has grown exponentially with technological innovation. Fire to cook meat, a wagon attached to an ox, combustion engines, air conditioning, wireless networks, data centers, etc. Today you probably consume more energy in a few days than your ancestors whole lives. Now, we've created distributed, immutable property, something that has never existed before. It turns electricity into value storage. What is the "correct" amount of energy for humans to spend on such a thing?

hjek 5y ago
> What is the "correct" amount of energy for humans to spend on such a thing? Perhaps the "correct" amount is less than what it would take to increase planet temperature by 4°C?
- doggosphere 5y ago
  Energy consumption has nothing to do with increasing planet temperature, if Bitcoin consumed 10x the energy via solar panels, it would not have any environmental impact beyond the raw materials used in the panels. You're equating energy usage to carbon emissions, but you should be able to distinguish the difference.
  - hjek 5y ago
    > Energy consumption has nothing to do with increasing planet temperature, As long as we're using fossil fuels, planet temperature does in fact have something to do with energy consumption. You seem to be arguing that because renewable energy sources exists, Bitcoin has nothing to do with fossil fuel emissions. However, that is false, as 8% of Bitcoin mining happens in Inner Mongolia, which is home to many of China's large coal mines[0]. [0]: https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/bitcoin-mining-china-environment-b1811656.html https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/bi...
    - doggosphere 5y ago
      I'm arguing that China subsidizes coal[0], and that China does not utilize a carbon tax[1]. So when you call for a ban of Bitcoin in the name in environmental concerns, you've decided to be the arbiter of energy usage, on what is productive and valuable, and what is not. You're welcome to argue your points, but it would still be far more efficient and productive to addresses the actual core problem: coal fire plants, and energy prices. [0]: https://www.iisd.org/gsi/faqs/china https://www.iisd.org/gsi/faqs/china [1]: https://www.carbontax.org/issues/what-about-china/ https://www.carbontax.org/issues/what-about-china/

broighbrobroigh 5y ago

How much of our global energy usage is spent on poorly implemented ACPI code, Windows drivers, inefficient GPU drivers, etc... Even better, how much energy is wasted per page view due to inefficient frontend web frameworks? Seems to me that code is speech, and restricting what one can and can't do with silicon that one owns is absolutely ridiculous.

reedjosh 5y ago

How much energy maintains the USD's reserve status?

matheusmoreira 5y ago
According to some other comment on this thread: > a bunch of aircraft carriers and planes and bombs and people with big guns, which gives the ability to say (credibly) that it is a crime to forge dollars no matter who you are or where you live Cryptocurrency offers all this and more for a fraction of the price.