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PSA: Note that AgileBits intentionally hides the standalone license option and pushes subscription as the only visible scheme to get the application. This is a

by AnonHP 5y ago

PSA: Note that AgileBits intentionally hides the standalone license option and pushes subscription as the only visible scheme to get the application. This is a long standing dark pattern, and though the support staff will admit on their forums or here that the standalone license does exist, you wouldn't be able to find it without some special incantations on the forums. They will keep reiterating that it's for your own good so that you don't get confused. The application UX may be great. The sync may be great. The security of the closed source application may be great (because of audits). But this single dark pattern and the condescending attitude of their team members whenever the topic of standalone license comes up are enough to avoid this company. If you can get to the standalone license purchase option within three or four clicks from the main site, do let me know. I switched out of 1Password to Bitwarden long ago. I will admit that Bitwarden is not fantastic (I find it somewhat slow and also lacking some features). But it doesn't use dark patterns like AgileBits does.

Mister_Snuggles 5y ago
The sync story bothers me. In my mind, Enpass is one that does it correctly. They don't offer a sync service, instead they let you choose from a number of popular ones (OneDrive, Dropbox, iCloud, and a few others), one of which you probably already use. There's no need for yet another cloud service to solve this already solved problem.
- jacurtis 5y ago
  I used the standalone option for 1Password for many years. They too allow the same thing. I would store my 1Password vault on Dropbox, which effectively handled the sync for me.
- blaydator 5y ago
  That’s the feature that made me switched to Enpass as well. Between the licence thing and pushing the subscription, I have lost trust in 1Password, even if it (still) offer the drop sync as well.
- ngrilly 5y ago
  I used to think like that but syncing files and syncing passwords across multiple devices are different things, mainly because of conflict management. If you have a conflict on a file which has been modified on two devices, there is not that much do you can do except using the most recent update based on timestamps and keeping the other one as a backup file. Dropbox does that for example. For password entries, it’s possible to be much master and do the same per entry, and even merge the fields within an entry. To do this in a reliable way on a remote file system, I think a file locking or a compare and swap mechanism is required. Another constraint with using a file sync service is this is introducing a kitchen and egg problem when we lose everything. We first need to restore access to the file sync service to then be able to recover the password file. Which means we can’t use the password manager for the file sync service. Not a deal breaker, as it is what I’m currently doing, but I’ve always wondered how it would go after a catastrophe like losing everything in a home fire.
  - Mister_Snuggles 5y ago
    I'm not sure how you'd get that fine-grained when syncing with a normal file syncing service. That said, I'm generally not modifying entries in my password manager on two machines at the same time, nor am I dealing with long periods without connectivity, so I've never found this limitation to be a problem. The bootstrapping problem is an interesting one. Instead of just having a master password for the password manager, you also have to have the file sharing password as well. Like you, I've somewhat accepted this situation. For the home fire scenario, offsite backups are the answer. When you restore your backup (likely with yet another password involved!), the recent-ish local copy of the password database will be restored with it and you can use the passwords stored in that to bootstrap the syncing process. My current offsite backup regime is just a pair of portable USB drives. One is at my office, the other is at home, and I rotate them weekly (COVID messed this up). There are many other ways to do this - cloud services, a NAS sitting at a friend's place, external drives in a bank safe deposit box, etc.
trevor-e 5y ago
Yea I paid $65 for the standalone version back in 2016 which seemed really expensive for something that's essentially an encrypted database (despite its great UX). My reasoning is I didn't need any of the fancy family sync features and preferred to handle the syncing myself for free. They've basically discontinued that product and I can't update to their latest app since it only supports the SaaS product accounts. Complete waste of my money.
- seppin 5y ago
  Also stuck on 1P 6.0. Paid full price, now slowly their browser plugins stop working etc. Very disappointing.
jacurtis 5y ago
I started using 1Password a long time ago (~10 years) when the only option was the standalone license option. It is a lifetime license for about the cost of ~2 years of subscription. They still sell and "support" this standalone product. But I use the word "support" in quotes because the standalone license doesn't offer all the features of the subscription product. I resisted switching to the subscription product for many years, but eventually there were many features that were only offered on subscription accounts and I caved and made the switch. So I just wanted to warn other people that before you buy the Standalone option, you should know that it isn't quite the same 1Password experience as the subscription. There are quite a few significant features missing.
- kijin 5y ago
  Lifetime licenses rarely last a lifetime. Most products will run out of support long before you run out of life. You'd be lucky if the company even existed after 10 years. Before subscription software became all the rage, you had to purchase a license for a specific version. You had the right to keep using the version you purchased for as long as it worked, but if you wanted any new features, you had to shell out money again for a new version every few years. Maybe you'd get free bugfixes from time to time, but that was about it. Now we're all spoiled by the rolling updates funded by the subscription model. We keep asking for the old pricing model, and at the same time want all the new features to be backported perpetually. :)
  - kodah 5y ago
    I like the JetBrains model where I pay a subscription and get that version for forever. I'd love to see more companies with this model.

by AnonHP 5y ago

Mister_Snuggles 5y ago

The sync story bothers me. In my mind, Enpass is one that does it correctly. They don't offer a sync service, instead they let you choose from a number of popular ones (OneDrive, Dropbox, iCloud, and a few others), one of which you probably already use. There's no need for yet another cloud service to solve this already solved problem.

jacurtis 5y ago
I used the standalone option for 1Password for many years. They too allow the same thing. I would store my 1Password vault on Dropbox, which effectively handled the sync for me.
blaydator 5y ago
That’s the feature that made me switched to Enpass as well. Between the licence thing and pushing the subscription, I have lost trust in 1Password, even if it (still) offer the drop sync as well.
ngrilly 5y ago
I used to think like that but syncing files and syncing passwords across multiple devices are different things, mainly because of conflict management. If you have a conflict on a file which has been modified on two devices, there is not that much do you can do except using the most recent update based on timestamps and keeping the other one as a backup file. Dropbox does that for example. For password entries, it’s possible to be much master and do the same per entry, and even merge the fields within an entry. To do this in a reliable way on a remote file system, I think a file locking or a compare and swap mechanism is required. Another constraint with using a file sync service is this is introducing a kitchen and egg problem when we lose everything. We first need to restore access to the file sync service to then be able to recover the password file. Which means we can’t use the password manager for the file sync service. Not a deal breaker, as it is what I’m currently doing, but I’ve always wondered how it would go after a catastrophe like losing everything in a home fire.
- Mister_Snuggles 5y ago
  I'm not sure how you'd get that fine-grained when syncing with a normal file syncing service. That said, I'm generally not modifying entries in my password manager on two machines at the same time, nor am I dealing with long periods without connectivity, so I've never found this limitation to be a problem. The bootstrapping problem is an interesting one. Instead of just having a master password for the password manager, you also have to have the file sharing password as well. Like you, I've somewhat accepted this situation. For the home fire scenario, offsite backups are the answer. When you restore your backup (likely with yet another password involved!), the recent-ish local copy of the password database will be restored with it and you can use the passwords stored in that to bootstrap the syncing process. My current offsite backup regime is just a pair of portable USB drives. One is at my office, the other is at home, and I rotate them weekly (COVID messed this up). There are many other ways to do this - cloud services, a NAS sitting at a friend's place, external drives in a bank safe deposit box, etc.

trevor-e 5y ago

Yea I paid $65 for the standalone version back in 2016 which seemed really expensive for something that's essentially an encrypted database (despite its great UX). My reasoning is I didn't need any of the fancy family sync features and preferred to handle the syncing myself for free. They've basically discontinued that product and I can't update to their latest app since it only supports the SaaS product accounts. Complete waste of my money.

seppin 5y ago
Also stuck on 1P 6.0. Paid full price, now slowly their browser plugins stop working etc. Very disappointing.

jacurtis 5y ago

I started using 1Password a long time ago (~10 years) when the only option was the standalone license option. It is a lifetime license for about the cost of ~2 years of subscription. They still sell and "support" this standalone product. But I use the word "support" in quotes because the standalone license doesn't offer all the features of the subscription product. I resisted switching to the subscription product for many years, but eventually there were many features that were only offered on subscription accounts and I caved and made the switch. So I just wanted to warn other people that before you buy the Standalone option, you should know that it isn't quite the same 1Password experience as the subscription. There are quite a few significant features missing.

kijin 5y ago
Lifetime licenses rarely last a lifetime. Most products will run out of support long before you run out of life. You'd be lucky if the company even existed after 10 years. Before subscription software became all the rage, you had to purchase a license for a specific version. You had the right to keep using the version you purchased for as long as it worked, but if you wanted any new features, you had to shell out money again for a new version every few years. Maybe you'd get free bugfixes from time to time, but that was about it. Now we're all spoiled by the rolling updates funded by the subscription model. We keep asking for the old pricing model, and at the same time want all the new features to be backported perpetually. :)
- kodah 5y ago
  I like the JetBrains model where I pay a subscription and get that version for forever. I'd love to see more companies with this model.