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A carbon tax would filter down to the electricity consumer cost. I dont know about you, but I dont want to pay more for electricity so other people can burn ele

A carbon tax would filter down to the electricity consumer cost. I dont know about you, but I dont want to pay more for electricity so other people can burn electricity for virtual money. Unless you are suggesting taxing crypto itself, in which case… sure!

cedricd 5y ago
That's a common take, but a well-designed carbon tax could be made revenue-neutral and non-regressive. In other words, the amount it takes in can be given back to the average person -- in forms of tax rebates, investment in public transit, education, whatever. In an ideal world a carbon tax would have no adverse impact on lower and middle class people. I should also add that in that world higher electricity cost due to carbon tax is a good thing -- it'll help carbon-neutral sources of energy to compete and replace the more dirty forms. Which is exactly what we want.
- beowulfey 5y ago
  I have nothing against carbon taxes actually would love to see them implemented, but I am not sure how they would help prevent excessive energy use due to crypto. OP was suggesting a carbon tax instead of direct regulation, but I don’t quite get how it would dissuade crypto use without increasing electricity costs.
eeperson 5y ago
Consumers can make a net profit if the tax revenue is paid as a dividend to citizens. There are number of papers about this if you are interested [1]. [1] - https://citizensclimatelobby.org/carbon-pricing-studies/ https://citizensclimatelobby.org/carbon-pricing-studies/
tshaddox 5y ago
I don’t want to pay more for fancy sports cars or houses because other people are willing to pay higher prices for those things either.
jlmorton 5y ago
As others have said, a carbon tax can be designed to refund either the entire amount, or a portion of the amount back to consumers, which might also transform it into a non-regressive tax. But perhaps more importantly, you wouldn't be taxed because others are using electricity for virtual money. You would be taxed because your carbon emissions are causing climate change, and to encourage you to reduce energy usage where possible.
Spooky23 5y ago
Why is your electricity use posting on HN more virtuous than making Bitcoin?
micropresident 5y ago
Crypto is already taxed. All money has a cost on society. You have to do something to maintain its value. You don't think wars in the middle east -- to maintain the petrodollar -- have an environmental impact? And when it isn't oil it'll be fights over germanium and lithium veins. If you actually cared to do more than sit in a chair -- advocating random things you didn't research -- you'd be advocating for Thorium power. Thorium is nearly as abundant as lead -- it's all over the place -- and it's much more clean and less dangerous than even solar or wind.
lifty 5y ago
Yes, because that's the negative externality, the carbon that you dump in the atmosphere by consuming electricty. Would you be willing to pay more so that videogaming is not banned as well, or would you ban that too? Also, you can make the tax progressive so that the high consumers can pay much more.
disruptalot 5y ago
Why should anyone pay for your consumption and values when you aren't willing to pay for others?

cedricd 5y ago

That's a common take, but a well-designed carbon tax could be made revenue-neutral and non-regressive. In other words, the amount it takes in can be given back to the average person -- in forms of tax rebates, investment in public transit, education, whatever. In an ideal world a carbon tax would have no adverse impact on lower and middle class people. I should also add that in that world higher electricity cost due to carbon tax is a good thing -- it'll help carbon-neutral sources of energy to compete and replace the more dirty forms. Which is exactly what we want.

beowulfey 5y ago
I have nothing against carbon taxes actually would love to see them implemented, but I am not sure how they would help prevent excessive energy use due to crypto. OP was suggesting a carbon tax instead of direct regulation, but I don’t quite get how it would dissuade crypto use without increasing electricity costs.

eeperson 5y ago

Consumers can make a net profit if the tax revenue is paid as a dividend to citizens. There are number of papers about this if you are interested [1]. [1] - https://citizensclimatelobby.org/carbon-pricing-studies/ https://citizensclimatelobby.org/carbon-pricing-studies/

tshaddox 5y ago

I don’t want to pay more for fancy sports cars or houses because other people are willing to pay higher prices for those things either.

jlmorton 5y ago

As others have said, a carbon tax can be designed to refund either the entire amount, or a portion of the amount back to consumers, which might also transform it into a non-regressive tax. But perhaps more importantly, you wouldn't be taxed because others are using electricity for virtual money. You would be taxed because your carbon emissions are causing climate change, and to encourage you to reduce energy usage where possible.

Spooky23 5y ago

Why is your electricity use posting on HN more virtuous than making Bitcoin?

micropresident 5y ago

Crypto is already taxed. All money has a cost on society. You have to do something to maintain its value. You don't think wars in the middle east -- to maintain the petrodollar -- have an environmental impact? And when it isn't oil it'll be fights over germanium and lithium veins. If you actually cared to do more than sit in a chair -- advocating random things you didn't research -- you'd be advocating for Thorium power. Thorium is nearly as abundant as lead -- it's all over the place -- and it's much more clean and less dangerous than even solar or wind.

lifty 5y ago

Yes, because that's the negative externality, the carbon that you dump in the atmosphere by consuming electricty. Would you be willing to pay more so that videogaming is not banned as well, or would you ban that too? Also, you can make the tax progressive so that the high consumers can pay much more.

disruptalot 5y ago

Why should anyone pay for your consumption and values when you aren't willing to pay for others?