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Bitwarden is awesome. It's my current password manager after I left 1P. I spent hundreds into 1P before the subscription model, as their apps were expensive an

by pier25 5y ago

Bitwarden is awesome. It's my current password manager after I left 1P. I spent hundreds into 1P before the subscription model, as their apps were expensive and got them on multiple OS and for family members. Then Dropbox decided (rightfully) that you shouldn't use your public folder to host websites, and 1P told their customers to either get a subscription or lose the online vault which is a critical feature of any password manager. They didn't even have the decency to offer a free year of the subscription to their current paying customers. It would have cost 1P pennies to just host the vaults on S3, but they decided to force their customers to switch to the subscription model if they wanted to have a feature they had already paid for and 1P had been advertising for years. I will never give a single cent to 1P again.

JohnWhigham 5y ago
You're getting downvoted, but this is all true and shouldn't be discounted. I'm in the process of migrating off 1Password after their shitty behavior of all but forcing people to migrate to the cloud.
signal11 5y ago
I started with 1Password 4 (non-subscription) and considered upgrading to 1Password 7 -- yes, you could buy a non-subscription copy when I checked, although it's increasingly well hidden as an option -- and in addition to Dropbox it may have supported iCloud, not sure about that. In the end I went with the subscription because I it's bought once for all my devices, and is great for family use, with UX that's easy from children to grandparents. As a bonus, the Dropbox sync issues just stopped - their own sync works much better for me. I do understand the frustration about subscriptions for everything but I'd like my password manager vendor to remain in good financial health, so I'll happily make an exception and pay regularly for my password manager. > just host the vaults on S3 That's a fairly niche audience, and it's very easy to misconfigure S3. Product development is about making hard choices, and I'm ok with 1Password choosing not to do this, just as I'm okay with them not supporting WebDAV -- YMMV. What I do wish is that 1Password would support a few cloud storage options (e.g. Google Drive, OneDrive etc) on mobile so that people who're not inclined to subscribe have an alternative, if only to squelch the inevitable complaints about subscriptions. When 1Password was a smaller company, I can see why one wouldn't want to do that as it'd take away precious dev time, but my understanding is that they have more funding now.
- kwanbix 5y ago
  I agree on supporting your vendor, however, I think 1Password is too expensive. That is why I pay for Bitwarden. The difference is 33% less expensive (or 50% more expensive if you look it from the Bitwarden side). I think 3.33 euros per months is about a good valance.
  - bwoodruff 5y ago
    An individual 1Password membership is €2.65+VAT per month when invoiced annually. - Ben, 1Password
    - kwanbix 5y ago
      Bitwarden is €10 when invoiced annually (32 vs 10).
      - bwoodruff 5y ago
        Understood. There will always be something cheaper. Just commenting on your point about: > I think 3.33 euros per months is about a good valance. :)
        kwanbix 5y ago
        Oh, but that is the family plan. Yes, of course, there will be always a cheaper and a more expensive options. It is just that I feel that 10 per year (personal) or 40 per year (family) is a fair amount to pay for this service.
iamcreasy 5y ago
> Then Dropbox decided (rightfully) that you shouldn't use your public folder to host websites I did not know about it. Can you still do it with other provides such as Microsoft(OneDrive) and Google(Drive)?
extra88 5y ago
> online vault which is a critical feature of any password manager I guess by "online" you mean access to your passwords using nothing but a web browser. I can see how that could be a requirement for certain users (e.g. employees permitted to make personal use of a work computer but not install any software) but disagree that that's a critical feature. I used Dropbox to sync my 1Password vaults (including a shared vault with my spouse) from 2013 but never used the "trick" of publishing it through the public folder before Dropbox dropped that feature in 2017. I continued using Dropbox to sync vaults until last year when I upgraded to 1Password 7 and a family subscription.
- pier25 5y ago
  > but disagree that that's a critical feature I imagine you've probably never lost your phone while traveling.
  - extra88 5y ago
    > you've probably never lost your phone while traveling. Yes, like most people, I have not. If I did, on most trips I’ve had a laptop and anything critical would also be in the shared vault on my spouse’s phone. If I didn’t have any of that, I could install the client on another device to access my vault, if someone would let me; a risk but possibly worthwhile in some critical hypothetical and not really different than using a browser on it (I don’t even know what such a scenario would be, if I was robbed of everything?). Or I could buy a device (even if I was robbed, I could call my parents to pay).
nemosaltat 5y ago
Like OP, I’ve used 1P since the early 2010s. Its approachability (and the fact that I pay for it) finally convinced my family (SO/siblings/parents) to use a password manager. I love the native experience on iOS, and the full desktop version + browser extensions I remember being frustrated by the Dropbox loss, and I’m still frustrated that they seem to push 1PasswordX over the native apps. Other than that I’ve only had 3 major gripes: 1) Lack of Linux support 2) Lack of good ssh key management 3) Lack of ability to self host I’ve been eying BitWarden for awhile- How was your transition/migration to Bitwarden from 1P? How does the iOS integration compare to 1P? Do you self-host?
- rdschouw 5y ago
  I self-host using docker. It is very reliable including updates. Transition is as easy as exporting your 1P database and importing it into BW. Integration in IOS is very similar as 1P. Overall, 1P's apps are more polished than BW. You notice it when you migrate over and after a while you forget about it. There's one caveat and that is you've to pay BW $10 per year to get TOTP/2F AUTH support and offline support in the apps.
  - dteare 5y ago
    I'm happy to hear our export worked well for you. We spent extra effort there to make sure our export format contained enough structured information that it could be imported properly elsewhere. I hate data lock-in and we wanted to make sure you wouldn't be locked into 1Password. I hope we can win you back someday. ++dave; 1Password Founder.
  - sildur 5y ago
    You don't have to pay if you use biwarden_rs. It's also way lighter and easier to set up.
- philsnow 5y ago
  > I’m still frustrated that they seem to push 1PasswordX over the native apps This is one of the things that pushed me to choose bitwarden over a 1password families subscription (even though I get the latter for free from my work). I don't like the idea of credentials living in a browser extension (or even in a browser). I'm not confident in the long-term security of the entire setup, especially with the "evergreen" nature of modern browsers. I don't like telling my less-technical family that this extension is okay, but absolutely don't trust any other extensions.
dasil003 5y ago
It's slightly shocking how angry people get about companies going from one-time purchase to subscription. Like many software companies, 1Password made a business decision to focus on a subscription product. This strikes me as reasonable and naturally aligned with the customer expectation that this software be supported in perpetuity as OSes and browsers evolve over time. $5/month is not a crazy price to pay for a critical piece of software you use every day—to the contrary I kind of feel like it's the minimum price for a consumer software product to be sustainable. I don't want my password manager to be cutting corners because they can't afford to invest properly in the product. As far as deprecating the bring-your-own-sync approach, I understand this is legit flexibility that some customers want, and I'm glad there is a competitor that does a good job of it. Personally though, after many years of using 1Password + Dropbox, I must say I've had a lot fewer sync problems since migrating over to 1Password for Families. If I had a broad sync strategy maybe I would feel otherwise, but I don't—to the contrary, I'm moving away from Dropbox because of the shenanigans they are pulling with my OS internals, and maintaining a VPS or even an AWS account with S3 is a significant burden that I don't take lightly. As a product engineer, a single integrated sync is easier to provide guarantees, and prevents a lot of problems caused by third parties with no recourse to debug.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- steveklabnik 5y ago
  I've been thinking about this a lot about Adobe lately, specifically. I've been getting into video editing as a hobby, and the fact that I could use Premier for $20/month rather than the single time purchase of $800 or whatever it used to be is the difference between me being able to use it or not. And yeah, maybe in 40 months I would be spending more money, but there's no guarantee I wouldn't be spending money to upgrade at that point... and then once I started wanting to add in After Effects, Audition and Photoshop, $60/month for literally every Adobe product compared to what, like, $2400 for those four? And if I use any more things from the suite, it's still the same price. I was talking about this with someone the other day, and was like "Imagine telling 12 year old me that I would own a legal license of Photoshop because of how inexpensive it is." (I am also a happily paying customer of 1password; I strongly prefer the cloud offering...) And that's beyond the fact that, in some sense, this aligns the business needs closer to mine. It is easier and in some sense, more fair, for me to pay for the software while I use it, and not when I don't. On the business side, it's nicer too. It pretty much feels like a win-win all around, except for certain circumstances. But in the happy path, it's basically almost entirely strictly better. I feel weird being on this side of this argument these days, but it is what it is.

by pier25 5y ago

JohnWhigham 5y ago

You're getting downvoted, but this is all true and shouldn't be discounted. I'm in the process of migrating off 1Password after their shitty behavior of all but forcing people to migrate to the cloud.

signal11 5y ago

I started with 1Password 4 (non-subscription) and considered upgrading to 1Password 7 -- yes, you could buy a non-subscription copy when I checked, although it's increasingly well hidden as an option -- and in addition to Dropbox it may have supported iCloud, not sure about that. In the end I went with the subscription because I it's bought once for all my devices, and is great for family use, with UX that's easy from children to grandparents. As a bonus, the Dropbox sync issues just stopped - their own sync works much better for me. I do understand the frustration about subscriptions for everything but I'd like my password manager vendor to remain in good financial health, so I'll happily make an exception and pay regularly for my password manager. > just host the vaults on S3 That's a fairly niche audience, and it's very easy to misconfigure S3. Product development is about making hard choices, and I'm ok with 1Password choosing not to do this, just as I'm okay with them not supporting WebDAV -- YMMV. What I do wish is that 1Password would support a few cloud storage options (e.g. Google Drive, OneDrive etc) on mobile so that people who're not inclined to subscribe have an alternative, if only to squelch the inevitable complaints about subscriptions. When 1Password was a smaller company, I can see why one wouldn't want to do that as it'd take away precious dev time, but my understanding is that they have more funding now.

kwanbix 5y ago
I agree on supporting your vendor, however, I think 1Password is too expensive. That is why I pay for Bitwarden. The difference is 33% less expensive (or 50% more expensive if you look it from the Bitwarden side). I think 3.33 euros per months is about a good valance.
- bwoodruff 5y ago
  An individual 1Password membership is €2.65+VAT per month when invoiced annually. - Ben, 1Password
  - kwanbix 5y ago
    Bitwarden is €10 when invoiced annually (32 vs 10).
    - bwoodruff 5y ago
      Understood. There will always be something cheaper. Just commenting on your point about: > I think 3.33 euros per months is about a good valance. :)
      - kwanbix 5y ago
        Oh, but that is the family plan. Yes, of course, there will be always a cheaper and a more expensive options. It is just that I feel that 10 per year (personal) or 40 per year (family) is a fair amount to pay for this service.

iamcreasy 5y ago

> Then Dropbox decided (rightfully) that you shouldn't use your public folder to host websites I did not know about it. Can you still do it with other provides such as Microsoft(OneDrive) and Google(Drive)?

extra88 5y ago

> online vault which is a critical feature of any password manager I guess by "online" you mean access to your passwords using nothing but a web browser. I can see how that could be a requirement for certain users (e.g. employees permitted to make personal use of a work computer but not install any software) but disagree that that's a critical feature. I used Dropbox to sync my 1Password vaults (including a shared vault with my spouse) from 2013 but never used the "trick" of publishing it through the public folder before Dropbox dropped that feature in 2017. I continued using Dropbox to sync vaults until last year when I upgraded to 1Password 7 and a family subscription.

pier25 5y ago
> but disagree that that's a critical feature I imagine you've probably never lost your phone while traveling.
- extra88 5y ago
  > you've probably never lost your phone while traveling. Yes, like most people, I have not. If I did, on most trips I’ve had a laptop and anything critical would also be in the shared vault on my spouse’s phone. If I didn’t have any of that, I could install the client on another device to access my vault, if someone would let me; a risk but possibly worthwhile in some critical hypothetical and not really different than using a browser on it (I don’t even know what such a scenario would be, if I was robbed of everything?). Or I could buy a device (even if I was robbed, I could call my parents to pay).

nemosaltat 5y ago

Like OP, I’ve used 1P since the early 2010s. Its approachability (and the fact that I pay for it) finally convinced my family (SO/siblings/parents) to use a password manager. I love the native experience on iOS, and the full desktop version + browser extensions I remember being frustrated by the Dropbox loss, and I’m still frustrated that they seem to push 1PasswordX over the native apps. Other than that I’ve only had 3 major gripes: 1) Lack of Linux support 2) Lack of good ssh key management 3) Lack of ability to self host I’ve been eying BitWarden for awhile- How was your transition/migration to Bitwarden from 1P? How does the iOS integration compare to 1P? Do you self-host?

rdschouw 5y ago
I self-host using docker. It is very reliable including updates. Transition is as easy as exporting your 1P database and importing it into BW. Integration in IOS is very similar as 1P. Overall, 1P's apps are more polished than BW. You notice it when you migrate over and after a while you forget about it. There's one caveat and that is you've to pay BW $10 per year to get TOTP/2F AUTH support and offline support in the apps.
- dteare 5y ago
  I'm happy to hear our export worked well for you. We spent extra effort there to make sure our export format contained enough structured information that it could be imported properly elsewhere. I hate data lock-in and we wanted to make sure you wouldn't be locked into 1Password. I hope we can win you back someday. ++dave; 1Password Founder.
- sildur 5y ago
  You don't have to pay if you use biwarden_rs. It's also way lighter and easier to set up.
philsnow 5y ago
> I’m still frustrated that they seem to push 1PasswordX over the native apps This is one of the things that pushed me to choose bitwarden over a 1password families subscription (even though I get the latter for free from my work). I don't like the idea of credentials living in a browser extension (or even in a browser). I'm not confident in the long-term security of the entire setup, especially with the "evergreen" nature of modern browsers. I don't like telling my less-technical family that this extension is okay, but absolutely don't trust any other extensions.

dasil003 5y ago

It's slightly shocking how angry people get about companies going from one-time purchase to subscription. Like many software companies, 1Password made a business decision to focus on a subscription product. This strikes me as reasonable and naturally aligned with the customer expectation that this software be supported in perpetuity as OSes and browsers evolve over time. $5/month is not a crazy price to pay for a critical piece of software you use every day—to the contrary I kind of feel like it's the minimum price for a consumer software product to be sustainable. I don't want my password manager to be cutting corners because they can't afford to invest properly in the product. As far as deprecating the bring-your-own-sync approach, I understand this is legit flexibility that some customers want, and I'm glad there is a competitor that does a good job of it. Personally though, after many years of using 1Password + Dropbox, I must say I've had a lot fewer sync problems since migrating over to 1Password for Families. If I had a broad sync strategy maybe I would feel otherwise, but I don't—to the contrary, I'm moving away from Dropbox because of the shenanigans they are pulling with my OS internals, and maintaining a VPS or even an AWS account with S3 is a significant burden that I don't take lightly. As a product engineer, a single integrated sync is easier to provide guarantees, and prevents a lot of problems caused by third parties with no recourse to debug.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
steveklabnik 5y ago
I've been thinking about this a lot about Adobe lately, specifically. I've been getting into video editing as a hobby, and the fact that I could use Premier for $20/month rather than the single time purchase of $800 or whatever it used to be is the difference between me being able to use it or not. And yeah, maybe in 40 months I would be spending more money, but there's no guarantee I wouldn't be spending money to upgrade at that point... and then once I started wanting to add in After Effects, Audition and Photoshop, $60/month for literally every Adobe product compared to what, like, $2400 for those four? And if I use any more things from the suite, it's still the same price. I was talking about this with someone the other day, and was like "Imagine telling 12 year old me that I would own a legal license of Photoshop because of how inexpensive it is." (I am also a happily paying customer of 1password; I strongly prefer the cloud offering...) And that's beyond the fact that, in some sense, this aligns the business needs closer to mine. It is easier and in some sense, more fair, for me to pay for the software while I use it, and not when I don't. On the business side, it's nicer too. It pretty much feels like a win-win all around, except for certain circumstances. But in the happy path, it's basically almost entirely strictly better. I feel weird being on this side of this argument these days, but it is what it is.