3 ms·

Hydrogen makes much more sense for container ships, where electric batteries can't be made practical, but hydrogen storage can be scaled easily.

SigmundA 5y ago
I agree also perhaps for grid scale storage
- himlion 5y ago
  Or aluminium smelters.
toomuchtodo 5y ago
Ammonia is a better fit for marine applications, as it doesn't require high pressure or cryo storage. It can also be produced using renewable energy, and is cheaper to transport. One of the largest producers in the world (CF Industries in Louisiana) has committed to producing it using offshore wind, and renewables in general (and their terminals are located in geographic areas where there is already high penetration of renewables on the local grid). https://www.cfindustries.com/globalassets/cf-industries/media/documents/commitment-to-clean-energy-economy.pdf https://www.cfindustries.com/globalassets/cf-industries/medi...
- darksaints 5y ago
  Cryo/pressurized storage isn't technically necessary for ships either. Liquid hydrogen with insulated storage works well enough. The key is evaporation rates. As long as the ship consumes fuel faster than it evaporates, there is no need to maintain pressurization. In practice, some buffering pressurization may be necessary, but the scale of pressurization needs will be a lot lower than is required to store hydrogen long term.
wiz21c 5y ago
And if the ship sinks I guess hydrogen pollutes less than oil ?
- eloff 5y ago
  Sure, but it's not a big concern as it's not that common.
  - eloff 5y ago
    To the person who disagrees - compared to climate change, it's the least of our worries. No oil spills beats a few oil spills - but these are not an Exxon Valdez sized event, and they don't really matter in the grand scheme of things.
- ivalm 5y ago
  Maybe ever so slightly acidifies water + escapes atmosphere; I don’t think there is real hydrogen spill pollution.
- scatters 5y ago
  The hydrogen goes up. Most of it will be in space in an hour or two. Any that doesn't will react with atmospheric oxygen to produce water vapor.
- WorldMaker 5y ago
  By a lot, mostly. The liquid hydrogen eventually doesn't have enough pressure/cold enough temperature to stay liquid so it turns back to gas and most bubbles out of the water (with some of it reacting with Oxygen and becoming more water). It's possible if it were a "big enough" and "concentrated enough" spill it might briefly create anoxic zones where fish will die. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anoxic_waters https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anoxic_waters (But humans and dumb algae accidentally do that "all the time" and the ocean does have recovery methods from anoxic waters. It's not great for the climate or the ocean, but it is mostly survivable and much more "temporary" problem than the long term effects of oil pollution.)
  - wglb 5y ago
    It is also a greenhouse gas http://agage.mit.edu/publications/global-environmental-impacts-hydrogen-economy http://agage.mit.edu/publications/global-environmental-impac...

SigmundA 5y ago

I agree also perhaps for grid scale storage

himlion 5y ago
Or aluminium smelters.

toomuchtodo 5y ago

Ammonia is a better fit for marine applications, as it doesn't require high pressure or cryo storage. It can also be produced using renewable energy, and is cheaper to transport. One of the largest producers in the world (CF Industries in Louisiana) has committed to producing it using offshore wind, and renewables in general (and their terminals are located in geographic areas where there is already high penetration of renewables on the local grid). https://www.cfindustries.com/globalassets/cf-industries/media/documents/commitment-to-clean-energy-economy.pdf https://www.cfindustries.com/globalassets/cf-industries/medi...

darksaints 5y ago
Cryo/pressurized storage isn't technically necessary for ships either. Liquid hydrogen with insulated storage works well enough. The key is evaporation rates. As long as the ship consumes fuel faster than it evaporates, there is no need to maintain pressurization. In practice, some buffering pressurization may be necessary, but the scale of pressurization needs will be a lot lower than is required to store hydrogen long term.

wiz21c 5y ago

And if the ship sinks I guess hydrogen pollutes less than oil ?

eloff 5y ago
Sure, but it's not a big concern as it's not that common.
- eloff 5y ago
  To the person who disagrees - compared to climate change, it's the least of our worries. No oil spills beats a few oil spills - but these are not an Exxon Valdez sized event, and they don't really matter in the grand scheme of things.
ivalm 5y ago
Maybe ever so slightly acidifies water + escapes atmosphere; I don’t think there is real hydrogen spill pollution.
scatters 5y ago
The hydrogen goes up. Most of it will be in space in an hour or two. Any that doesn't will react with atmospheric oxygen to produce water vapor.
WorldMaker 5y ago
By a lot, mostly. The liquid hydrogen eventually doesn't have enough pressure/cold enough temperature to stay liquid so it turns back to gas and most bubbles out of the water (with some of it reacting with Oxygen and becoming more water). It's possible if it were a "big enough" and "concentrated enough" spill it might briefly create anoxic zones where fish will die. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anoxic_waters https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anoxic_waters (But humans and dumb algae accidentally do that "all the time" and the ocean does have recovery methods from anoxic waters. It's not great for the climate or the ocean, but it is mostly survivable and much more "temporary" problem than the long term effects of oil pollution.)
- wglb 5y ago
  It is also a greenhouse gas http://agage.mit.edu/publications/global-environmental-impacts-hydrogen-economy http://agage.mit.edu/publications/global-environmental-impac...