5 ms·

Based on how well Apple designs thermals, we can only throw dice. [0] [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiCBYAP_Sgg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiCBYAP_S

by bebna 5y ago

Based on how well Apple designs thermals, we can only throw dice. [0] [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiCBYAP_Sgg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiCBYAP_Sgg

Pulcinella 5y ago
Why does he take the back cover off and complain that the air flow and cooling don’t work properly?
- slezyr 5y ago
  There should be a cooper pipe between the CPU and cooler like this one[1]. Seriously, WTF? Where is it? 1: https://i0.wp.com/lemmymorgan.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Heat-pipe-of-notebooks.jpg https://i0.wp.com/lemmymorgan.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01...
  - DougBTX 5y ago
    Here's an example teardown: https://guide-images.cdn.ifixit.com/igi/iUejB4OfKlPD4Fex.huge https://guide-images.cdn.ifixit.com/igi/iUejB4OfKlPD4Fex.hug... The heat pipe is the part just above and to the left of the fan.
    - slezyr 5y ago
      That's a different model, there is no heat pipe in the video see https://youtu.be/iiCBYAP_Sgg?t=57 https://youtu.be/iiCBYAP_Sgg?t=57
    - pdpi 5y ago
      The model in the video is this one I think — https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook+Air+13-Inch+Retina+2018+Teardown/115201 https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook+Air+13-Inch+Retina+2... (Video mentions 2019 model, which is a minor revision based on this)
  - HPsquared 5y ago
    In a way it's possibly more efficient without the heat pipe - the cooler is directly over the CPU in this design, and can be quite large due to the way it's packaged (though it has to be thin). The downside is it's harder to get decent airflow over the fins. The casing is probably designed to direct the airflow, but I'd have to see all parts together to figure out how this works. EDIT: the lower case appears to have some ducting on it, see this example: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324259489798 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324259489798
    - slezyr 5y ago
      That's a very questionable system. It needs to be completely sealed except for intake to work properly.
      - Applejinx 5y ago
        Correct. It needs to be completely sealed. You can't take the back off the laptop and have the cooling system function, the case is part of the cooling ducts. Provides for heat dissipation over broader surfaces. This is normal.
- pokot0 5y ago
  Because it helps gets more views on YouTube which is the only thing he is after. Him patronizing the thermal design of Apple computers that way is pretty funny, ngl.
  - slezyr 5y ago
    It's really funny because he is correct, that fan does nothing. There is no heat pipe connecting CPU and fan.
    - pokot0 5y ago
      Idk, I am no expert but I tend to believe that a design that is shipped to millions of customers and only a handful report problems is probably designed better than what the average youtuber or forum commenter can assess. Apple is known to remove elements from their design in order to optimize. That big and heavy heat pipe seems like a perfect element to remove. And maybe it is a mistake. That happened before and they iterated over it and turned the design into an advantage most of the times. Judging and say "does nothing" is very naive in my opinion and I am pretty confident that everything in that designed is planned pretty accurately.
      - slezyr 5y ago
        Cool, but why does a new and more power-efficient M1 laptop has it[1], and it's much bigger than this one? Apple is also known for not admitting its design failures. 1: https://www.zdnet.com/a/hub/i/2020/11/20/ab77bd9b-edc0-419f-aae5-bc14ea000bf6/2020-11-20-08-11-01.jpg https://www.zdnet.com/a/hub/i/2020/11/20/ab77bd9b-edc0-419f-...
        foldr 5y ago
        The M1 MacBook Air has no fan, so you can’t really compare its cooling design to the previous MacBook Air. Given that it’s fanless, it would hardly be surprising if it had bigger passive cooling devices. The idea that a cooling fan needs to “blow on” the thing that it’s cooling is just dumb. As long as the path from the fan to the CPU is sealed, it makes no difference at all how far away the fan is. (Think of a wing being tested in a wind tunnel. The fan that’s making the ‘wind’ doesn’t need to be placed right up against the wing for this to work!) A heat pipe gives you more layout flexibility because it lets you place the fan somewhere where it can’t generate airflow directly over the CPU. Given that a heat pipe can’t be 100% efficient at transferring heat, a design with a heat pipe is actually less efficient, all else being equal.
- ben509 5y ago
  He's not understanding that in the normal operating environment for Macs, there's an additional fan he's not seeing. The person who bought it.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
jmull 5y ago
That’s not a valid criticism of the cooling design of that computer. It may or may not be an adequate design, but this video doesn’t really address it. There’s no particular reason the fan should be physically next to the CPU or heat sink. Its job is to draw air into the computer, across the heat sink, and then back out. You generally don’t want the air intake and outflow to be too close to each other since that would typically cause heated air to be drawn back in, making the cooling a lot less effective. And you mostly want the air flowing in a channel (rather than blown all around inside), so you can expel most of the heated air. So, e.g., you have intake on one side of the computer, a channel for the air to flow inside the computer, and a fan at the other side of the channel, pulling air through. This will be effective if the heat sink on the CPU is anywhere along the channel. There’s no reason it needs to be next to the fan. A piece of copper, BTW, is a way to move heat from some place that doesn’t have good exposure to the air channel to a place where it does. You only need to do that if the heat sink doesn’t already have good exposure. To do this properly, I think you’d want to analyze the design and then run some tests to see under what circumstances heat builds up. Lost a little respect for that guy. He’s a smart guy, so I know he understands this stuff. You’ve got to wonder why he’s bullshitting his audience like this. Seems clear to me this video is about promoting himself rather than discovering or explaining flaws in the cooling system of Apple laptops. (Or maybe I’m giving him too much credit, and he really doesn’t understand this stuff. Either way, it’s not a good look for him.)

by bebna 5y ago

Based on how well Apple designs thermals, we can only throw dice. [0] [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiCBYAP_Sgg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiCBYAP_Sgg

Pulcinella 5y ago

Why does he take the back cover off and complain that the air flow and cooling don’t work properly?

slezyr 5y ago
There should be a cooper pipe between the CPU and cooler like this one[1]. Seriously, WTF? Where is it? 1: https://i0.wp.com/lemmymorgan.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Heat-pipe-of-notebooks.jpg https://i0.wp.com/lemmymorgan.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01...
- DougBTX 5y ago
  Here's an example teardown: https://guide-images.cdn.ifixit.com/igi/iUejB4OfKlPD4Fex.huge https://guide-images.cdn.ifixit.com/igi/iUejB4OfKlPD4Fex.hug... The heat pipe is the part just above and to the left of the fan.
  - slezyr 5y ago
    That's a different model, there is no heat pipe in the video see https://youtu.be/iiCBYAP_Sgg?t=57 https://youtu.be/iiCBYAP_Sgg?t=57
  - pdpi 5y ago
    The model in the video is this one I think — https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook+Air+13-Inch+Retina+2018+Teardown/115201 https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook+Air+13-Inch+Retina+2... (Video mentions 2019 model, which is a minor revision based on this)
- HPsquared 5y ago
  In a way it's possibly more efficient without the heat pipe - the cooler is directly over the CPU in this design, and can be quite large due to the way it's packaged (though it has to be thin). The downside is it's harder to get decent airflow over the fins. The casing is probably designed to direct the airflow, but I'd have to see all parts together to figure out how this works. EDIT: the lower case appears to have some ducting on it, see this example: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324259489798 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324259489798
  - slezyr 5y ago
    That's a very questionable system. It needs to be completely sealed except for intake to work properly.
    - Applejinx 5y ago
      Correct. It needs to be completely sealed. You can't take the back off the laptop and have the cooling system function, the case is part of the cooling ducts. Provides for heat dissipation over broader surfaces. This is normal.
pokot0 5y ago
Because it helps gets more views on YouTube which is the only thing he is after. Him patronizing the thermal design of Apple computers that way is pretty funny, ngl.
- slezyr 5y ago
  It's really funny because he is correct, that fan does nothing. There is no heat pipe connecting CPU and fan.
  - pokot0 5y ago
    Idk, I am no expert but I tend to believe that a design that is shipped to millions of customers and only a handful report problems is probably designed better than what the average youtuber or forum commenter can assess. Apple is known to remove elements from their design in order to optimize. That big and heavy heat pipe seems like a perfect element to remove. And maybe it is a mistake. That happened before and they iterated over it and turned the design into an advantage most of the times. Judging and say "does nothing" is very naive in my opinion and I am pretty confident that everything in that designed is planned pretty accurately.
    - slezyr 5y ago
      Cool, but why does a new and more power-efficient M1 laptop has it[1], and it's much bigger than this one? Apple is also known for not admitting its design failures. 1: https://www.zdnet.com/a/hub/i/2020/11/20/ab77bd9b-edc0-419f-aae5-bc14ea000bf6/2020-11-20-08-11-01.jpg https://www.zdnet.com/a/hub/i/2020/11/20/ab77bd9b-edc0-419f-...
      - foldr 5y ago
        The M1 MacBook Air has no fan, so you can’t really compare its cooling design to the previous MacBook Air. Given that it’s fanless, it would hardly be surprising if it had bigger passive cooling devices. The idea that a cooling fan needs to “blow on” the thing that it’s cooling is just dumb. As long as the path from the fan to the CPU is sealed, it makes no difference at all how far away the fan is. (Think of a wing being tested in a wind tunnel. The fan that’s making the ‘wind’ doesn’t need to be placed right up against the wing for this to work!) A heat pipe gives you more layout flexibility because it lets you place the fan somewhere where it can’t generate airflow directly over the CPU. Given that a heat pipe can’t be 100% efficient at transferring heat, a design with a heat pipe is actually less efficient, all else being equal.
ben509 5y ago
He's not understanding that in the normal operating environment for Macs, there's an additional fan he's not seeing. The person who bought it.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

jmull 5y ago

That’s not a valid criticism of the cooling design of that computer. It may or may not be an adequate design, but this video doesn’t really address it. There’s no particular reason the fan should be physically next to the CPU or heat sink. Its job is to draw air into the computer, across the heat sink, and then back out. You generally don’t want the air intake and outflow to be too close to each other since that would typically cause heated air to be drawn back in, making the cooling a lot less effective. And you mostly want the air flowing in a channel (rather than blown all around inside), so you can expel most of the heated air. So, e.g., you have intake on one side of the computer, a channel for the air to flow inside the computer, and a fan at the other side of the channel, pulling air through. This will be effective if the heat sink on the CPU is anywhere along the channel. There’s no reason it needs to be next to the fan. A piece of copper, BTW, is a way to move heat from some place that doesn’t have good exposure to the air channel to a place where it does. You only need to do that if the heat sink doesn’t already have good exposure. To do this properly, I think you’d want to analyze the design and then run some tests to see under what circumstances heat builds up. Lost a little respect for that guy. He’s a smart guy, so I know he understands this stuff. You’ve got to wonder why he’s bullshitting his audience like this. Seems clear to me this video is about promoting himself rather than discovering or explaining flaws in the cooling system of Apple laptops. (Or maybe I’m giving him too much credit, and he really doesn’t understand this stuff. Either way, it’s not a good look for him.)