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Nobody who knows me would call me "woke", except as part of some joke. But as the father of a kid with Asperger Syndrome, and as someone with a likely diagnosi

Nobody who knows me would call me "woke", except as part of some joke. But as the father of a kid with Asperger Syndrome, and as someone with a likely diagnosis myself (according to neuropysch testing), I'm a little bothered by the broad brush with which P.G. is painting.

moolcool 5y ago
+1, and with all due respect to PG's technical background, reductive and stereotyping pieces like this kind of feel like he's looking at the people who thrust him into his lofty VC position with contempt.
- waheoo 5y ago
  I can sort of get over all that, I'm not going to sit here and take it personally because I know it's just broad strokes, but at the same time, if it is broad strokes, there is nothing to be gained here because nothing is factual and everything can be dismissed because it is too general. If he focused on something more defined than a vague and derogatory term for smart people in general heay have had something worth reading. Ps. Seriously, why is the grey subtext so hard to read? Stop with grey text. Please.
jack_riminton 5y ago
As someone who is in the same boat, I think it'd be fair to say PG is too
jfengel 5y ago
Umm... just so ya know, practically everything in "wokeness" is about somebody saying "Please don't paint me with the broad brush you're using." I think most of what you identify as "wokeness" is other people who aren't directly affected trying to help out, since the affected people are usually a minority who won't be heard if it's just them. That can lead to its own forms of tone-deafness and "you're not helping" behavior, but that just leads to more cases of people who are sincerely and effectively helping being dismissed as "SJWs" out of hand. That's a cheap way of avoiding genuine problems with one tiny all-purpose acronym. I just wanted to point that out because what you wrote can be read like "I didn't care about anything except when it happens to me". It might give you a moment's pause the next time you want to deride something as "woke".
- mjburgess 5y ago
  > practically everything in "wokeness" is about saying.... Please don't paint me with the broad brush you're using. Err.. really? I mean, that's the definition of individualism against which many "woke" people would object. Even you say, "since the affected people are usually a minority". This is just false, if we take minority to refer to the usual "protected subgroups". The relevant sense of Woke here, seems to me, to be concerned not with people's individual needs -- but their needs qua some alleged group. Esp., as you offer, "minority" groups. It's a sort of perverse individualism. It's just substituting a different type of broad brush. Rather than starting with a maximally individual analysis (and hence construe treatment in terms of procedural fairness), rather, start by a group analysis and place individuals within those groups (and hence talk about aggregate distributional outcomes). The derision here is the conflict in having to raise an issue because you are autistic, without inviting the Woke-style "and autistic people are a minority who need protected". The latter substitutes the underlying lack of procedural concern for individual needs with exactly the same problem: again ignoring individual difference expect now substituting alleged "group needs". Woke analysis of this kind prescribes, a typically condescending, set of redresses for alleged group grievances. Individualism prescribes nothing of this sort, rather, adjusting the rules so as to maximise each person's ability to get what they each, as individuals, need. "Don't paint me with a broad brush" means let me speak for myself alone. This attitude is antithetical to analysis which begins with "minorities", which by construction, are not people who are each individually empowered to speak for themselves.
  - joshuamorton 5y ago
    > It's a sort of perverse individualism. It's just substituting a different type of broad brush. Rather than starting with a maximally individual analysis (and hence construe treatment in terms of procedural fairness), rather, start by a group analysis and place individuals within those groups (and hence talk about aggregate distributional outcomes). > Don't paint me with a broad brush" means let me speak for myself alone. This attitude is antithetical to analysis which begins with "minorities", This is, I think "just be race blind". Wokeness, as you seem to be describing it is an ideology that recognizes that identities impact how a person is perceived. To fairly judge an individual, you have to take into account that, because of their race or gender, their work may have been misvalued or falsely attributed. For better or worse, society discriminates, and recognition of that is a part of fairly judging people as individuals.
appleflaxen 5y ago
I don't understand what would bother you. He's talking about "nerds"; a cultural identity. You are talking about asperger's, a medical condition. PG doesn't draw any lines between them. What is your objection, specifically?
Permit 5y ago
> But as the father of a kid with Asperger Syndrome, and as someone with a likely diagnosis myself (according to neuropysch testing), It's not immediately obvious to me how this relates to the article. Can you elaborate? Is "fierce nerd" a reference to Aspergers?
- CoastalCoder 5y ago
  I apologize, I realized too late that it wasn't PG's article that mentioned Asperger, it was another HN comment.

moolcool 5y ago

+1, and with all due respect to PG's technical background, reductive and stereotyping pieces like this kind of feel like he's looking at the people who thrust him into his lofty VC position with contempt.

waheoo 5y ago
I can sort of get over all that, I'm not going to sit here and take it personally because I know it's just broad strokes, but at the same time, if it is broad strokes, there is nothing to be gained here because nothing is factual and everything can be dismissed because it is too general. If he focused on something more defined than a vague and derogatory term for smart people in general heay have had something worth reading. Ps. Seriously, why is the grey subtext so hard to read? Stop with grey text. Please.

jack_riminton 5y ago

As someone who is in the same boat, I think it'd be fair to say PG is too

jfengel 5y ago

Umm... just so ya know, practically everything in "wokeness" is about somebody saying "Please don't paint me with the broad brush you're using." I think most of what you identify as "wokeness" is other people who aren't directly affected trying to help out, since the affected people are usually a minority who won't be heard if it's just them. That can lead to its own forms of tone-deafness and "you're not helping" behavior, but that just leads to more cases of people who are sincerely and effectively helping being dismissed as "SJWs" out of hand. That's a cheap way of avoiding genuine problems with one tiny all-purpose acronym. I just wanted to point that out because what you wrote can be read like "I didn't care about anything except when it happens to me". It might give you a moment's pause the next time you want to deride something as "woke".

mjburgess 5y ago
> practically everything in "wokeness" is about saying.... Please don't paint me with the broad brush you're using. Err.. really? I mean, that's the definition of individualism against which many "woke" people would object. Even you say, "since the affected people are usually a minority". This is just false, if we take minority to refer to the usual "protected subgroups". The relevant sense of Woke here, seems to me, to be concerned not with people's individual needs -- but their needs qua some alleged group. Esp., as you offer, "minority" groups. It's a sort of perverse individualism. It's just substituting a different type of broad brush. Rather than starting with a maximally individual analysis (and hence construe treatment in terms of procedural fairness), rather, start by a group analysis and place individuals within those groups (and hence talk about aggregate distributional outcomes). The derision here is the conflict in having to raise an issue because you are autistic, without inviting the Woke-style "and autistic people are a minority who need protected". The latter substitutes the underlying lack of procedural concern for individual needs with exactly the same problem: again ignoring individual difference expect now substituting alleged "group needs". Woke analysis of this kind prescribes, a typically condescending, set of redresses for alleged group grievances. Individualism prescribes nothing of this sort, rather, adjusting the rules so as to maximise each person's ability to get what they each, as individuals, need. "Don't paint me with a broad brush" means let me speak for myself alone. This attitude is antithetical to analysis which begins with "minorities", which by construction, are not people who are each individually empowered to speak for themselves.
- joshuamorton 5y ago
  > It's a sort of perverse individualism. It's just substituting a different type of broad brush. Rather than starting with a maximally individual analysis (and hence construe treatment in terms of procedural fairness), rather, start by a group analysis and place individuals within those groups (and hence talk about aggregate distributional outcomes). > Don't paint me with a broad brush" means let me speak for myself alone. This attitude is antithetical to analysis which begins with "minorities", This is, I think "just be race blind". Wokeness, as you seem to be describing it is an ideology that recognizes that identities impact how a person is perceived. To fairly judge an individual, you have to take into account that, because of their race or gender, their work may have been misvalued or falsely attributed. For better or worse, society discriminates, and recognition of that is a part of fairly judging people as individuals.

appleflaxen 5y ago

I don't understand what would bother you. He's talking about "nerds"; a cultural identity. You are talking about asperger's, a medical condition. PG doesn't draw any lines between them. What is your objection, specifically?

Permit 5y ago

> But as the father of a kid with Asperger Syndrome, and as someone with a likely diagnosis myself (according to neuropysch testing), It's not immediately obvious to me how this relates to the article. Can you elaborate? Is "fierce nerd" a reference to Aspergers?

CoastalCoder 5y ago
I apologize, I realized too late that it wasn't PG's article that mentioned Asperger, it was another HN comment.