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The death nail for non-green energy going forward is two fold. 1. Green energy is getting cheaper year on year and in some cases it's now cheaper than fossil f

by jussij 5y ago

The death nail for non-green energy going forward is two fold. 1. Green energy is getting cheaper year on year and in some cases it's now cheaper than fossil fuel alternatives. 2. At some point in time the younger generation will revolt against their 'climate change denying governments' and just vote them out. When that happens a price will be put on carbon and that will wipe out the remaining fossil fuel participants. However, while I'm too old to worry about the effects of climate change, I still have to apologize to the younger generation. In the next 10 years very little action will be taken on climate change and when that action finally comes, I fear it will come too late. Even though we have had many decades of warnings we ignored all the signs. So the sad reality is, while we had a chance to tackle the issue, we just ignored the problem and absolved our responsibility to future generations. The reality is my generation, my older generation have let you down, only because we don't give a shit about your future. That is both depressing and disappointing. I'm sorry the adults, my generation, were left wanting :(

toyg 5y ago
I don't know how old you are, but the sad fact is that the tipping point was basically in the '80s and '90s, when most people reading this were not even teenagers. The world as a whole woke up to the problem when it was effectively already too late, because the scientific method wants proof and proof can only come after the process runs. There is absolutely no point in reasoning in terms of guilt and apologies. Edit: some commenters seem to think I'm trying to blame scientists. I'm trying not to blame anyone, because things just take time and that's what it is. What I'm trying to say is that reasoning in terms of guilt is pointless and counterproductive, because it just antagonises people.
- ArnoVW 5y ago
  Not sure that we can blame the eggheads for this one. The "Limits to Growth" report was published in 1972. I remember people talking about it in my teens (80s). At some point, everyone has to take their individual responsibility and accept that the scientific community did it's job, and that it's not their job to make society move. That's on all of us. Moreover, it sure does seem like we have passed a tipping point. Whether it is the tipping point remains to be seen. From a societal point of view, I think it is not a good idea to communicate "we're too late to fix anything" as it seems clear that this will lead to a total abandonment of any effort. The best moment to plant a tree is twenty years ago. The second-best moment is "now". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Limits_to_Growth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Limits_to_Growth
- bdamm 5y ago
  NASA testified to the US Senate in 1989 that climate change was happening and 99% anthropogenic. The science hasn’t been the problem.
- jussij 5y ago
  I'm not so vain to say I'm in my late 50's. My sadness is the outright denial of the problem at hand. Why I'm depressed for the future is I live in a country where for the last 15 years we've been debating if climate change is actually real. In those missed 15 years we've seen massive environmental impacts to the country, all of which look a lot like climate change. However, as a country and a government we remain blissfully unaware of the problems at hand. So it will take another 10 years of denial before the reality bites, but that will have been 25 wasted years. > There is absolutely no point in reasoning in terms of guilt and apologies. My country and my government still don't believe the issue is real. I'm apologizing for that 'national' ignorance. My life will not be impacted by climate change, but those living 50 years from now will be asking what went wrong?
perfunctory 5y ago
> 2. At some point in time the younger generation will revolt against their 'climate change denying governments' and just vote them out. I wish. Unfortunately this is not how change happens. Women got voting rights not because men suddenly voted their sexists governments out. Women got their voting rights because they fought for it. The only thing that gives me any kind of hope is movements like Fridays for Future and Extinction Rebellion. If they don't succeed, we're all doomed.
- ben_w 5y ago
  You’re right to say that’s not how change happens, but in this case I wouldn’t expect protest groups to be effective either, not even if the protests involved people throwing themselves in front of the private sports cars and aircraft of modern aristocrats — the harm from CO2 is equal regardless of where on the planet it is emitted, and there are plenty of places where the emissions can move to if banned in the rich countries. More optimistically, I also don’t think such protest actions are necessary. Renewables are now cheaper than everything else in good conditions, and still cheaper than coal and the equal of oil when you have to add batteries to them. And both the batteries and the power supplies themselves look like they’re going to continue to get cheaper for a while yet. I’m still concerned about biodiversity, antibiotics, and phosphorous — just not CO2.

by jussij 5y ago

toyg 5y ago

I don't know how old you are, but the sad fact is that the tipping point was basically in the '80s and '90s, when most people reading this were not even teenagers. The world as a whole woke up to the problem when it was effectively already too late, because the scientific method wants proof and proof can only come after the process runs. There is absolutely no point in reasoning in terms of guilt and apologies. Edit: some commenters seem to think I'm trying to blame scientists. I'm trying not to blame anyone, because things just take time and that's what it is. What I'm trying to say is that reasoning in terms of guilt is pointless and counterproductive, because it just antagonises people.

ArnoVW 5y ago
Not sure that we can blame the eggheads for this one. The "Limits to Growth" report was published in 1972. I remember people talking about it in my teens (80s). At some point, everyone has to take their individual responsibility and accept that the scientific community did it's job, and that it's not their job to make society move. That's on all of us. Moreover, it sure does seem like we have passed a tipping point. Whether it is the tipping point remains to be seen. From a societal point of view, I think it is not a good idea to communicate "we're too late to fix anything" as it seems clear that this will lead to a total abandonment of any effort. The best moment to plant a tree is twenty years ago. The second-best moment is "now". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Limits_to_Growth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Limits_to_Growth
bdamm 5y ago
NASA testified to the US Senate in 1989 that climate change was happening and 99% anthropogenic. The science hasn’t been the problem.
jussij 5y ago
I'm not so vain to say I'm in my late 50's. My sadness is the outright denial of the problem at hand. Why I'm depressed for the future is I live in a country where for the last 15 years we've been debating if climate change is actually real. In those missed 15 years we've seen massive environmental impacts to the country, all of which look a lot like climate change. However, as a country and a government we remain blissfully unaware of the problems at hand. So it will take another 10 years of denial before the reality bites, but that will have been 25 wasted years. > There is absolutely no point in reasoning in terms of guilt and apologies. My country and my government still don't believe the issue is real. I'm apologizing for that 'national' ignorance. My life will not be impacted by climate change, but those living 50 years from now will be asking what went wrong?

perfunctory 5y ago

> 2. At some point in time the younger generation will revolt against their 'climate change denying governments' and just vote them out. I wish. Unfortunately this is not how change happens. Women got voting rights not because men suddenly voted their sexists governments out. Women got their voting rights because they fought for it. The only thing that gives me any kind of hope is movements like Fridays for Future and Extinction Rebellion. If they don't succeed, we're all doomed.

ben_w 5y ago
You’re right to say that’s not how change happens, but in this case I wouldn’t expect protest groups to be effective either, not even if the protests involved people throwing themselves in front of the private sports cars and aircraft of modern aristocrats — the harm from CO2 is equal regardless of where on the planet it is emitted, and there are plenty of places where the emissions can move to if banned in the rich countries. More optimistically, I also don’t think such protest actions are necessary. Renewables are now cheaper than everything else in good conditions, and still cheaper than coal and the equal of oil when you have to add batteries to them. And both the batteries and the power supplies themselves look like they’re going to continue to get cheaper for a while yet. I’m still concerned about biodiversity, antibiotics, and phosphorous — just not CO2.