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Not that much. Sanctions are used as a political tool and to signal that certain lines have been crossed.

trompetenaccoun 5y ago
If anything the EU's symbolic sanctions signal the respective states can continue doing what they're doing with practical impunity. Same as when they sanctioned a handful officials for the Xinjiang concentration camps and the people directly responsible aren't even on the list.
- ben_w 5y ago
  International relations benefit from a range of sanctions, including very minor ones, because it allows you to ramp up and down pressure to suit the relative degree to which you care about any of the thousands of disagreements between nations, rather than just having a one-size-fits-all sledgehammer for every occasion.
  - trompetenaccoun 5y ago
    The argument is the sanctions are extremely lax and symbolical. They did nothing to improve the situation and appear to do more to appease the own population than put the CCP under pressure. "We're getting tough on Xi's regime", but in reality we aren't. Whatever happened to Never Again? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Never_again https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Never_again
    - ben_w 5y ago
      That these sanctions — which are for hacking rather than for genocide — are lax and symbolic is basically what I’m saying they need to be in order have room for things like “make sure China doesn’t invade Taiwan”. This is why there are also significantly greater sanctions against Russia for The Crimea and The Ukraine, and the sanctions against North Korea for the nukes. I agree that “Never again” was indeed never more than a slogan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excess_mortality_in_the_Soviet_Union_under_Joseph_Stalin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excess_mortality_in_the_Soviet... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history_(after_World_War_II) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history_(after_Wo...
      - trompetenaccoun 5y ago
        The disagreement isn't about how sanctions work, you're right about that. Taiwan is acutely threatened and their airspace and waters are routinely violated by the PLA. They're attempting to infiltrate the country on all fronts - through the media, through their democratic system and by recruiting Taiwanese to infiltrate the country from within, same as they did in HK before the takeover. There should be heavy sanctions for what is happening already, and not just with HK and Taiwan. If the CCP were to invade this would be an action far beyond sanctions, we can't just throw all these people under the bus! Taiwan is an independent and free country with over 23 million people. It would be like watching them invade the Netherlands without sending military help. Mainland China is well connected and increasingly powerful, it's not like North Korea or a Soviet Union when they were close to economic collapse. In many ways the Chinese system is actually more resilient than the US or the EU. Taiwan needs to be defended, the CCP has to be stopped right there. If sanctions were all that was standing between them and Taiwan, the Republic of China would be history already.

If anything the EU's symbolic sanctions signal the respective states can continue doing what they're doing with practical impunity. Same as when they sanctioned a handful officials for the Xinjiang concentration camps and the people directly responsible aren't even on the list.

ben_w 5y ago
International relations benefit from a range of sanctions, including very minor ones, because it allows you to ramp up and down pressure to suit the relative degree to which you care about any of the thousands of disagreements between nations, rather than just having a one-size-fits-all sledgehammer for every occasion.
- trompetenaccoun 5y ago
  The argument is the sanctions are extremely lax and symbolical. They did nothing to improve the situation and appear to do more to appease the own population than put the CCP under pressure. "We're getting tough on Xi's regime", but in reality we aren't. Whatever happened to Never Again? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Never_again https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Never_again
  - ben_w 5y ago
    That these sanctions — which are for hacking rather than for genocide — are lax and symbolic is basically what I’m saying they need to be in order have room for things like “make sure China doesn’t invade Taiwan”. This is why there are also significantly greater sanctions against Russia for The Crimea and The Ukraine, and the sanctions against North Korea for the nukes. I agree that “Never again” was indeed never more than a slogan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excess_mortality_in_the_Soviet_Union_under_Joseph_Stalin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excess_mortality_in_the_Soviet... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history_(after_World_War_II) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history_(after_Wo...
    - trompetenaccoun 5y ago
      The disagreement isn't about how sanctions work, you're right about that. Taiwan is acutely threatened and their airspace and waters are routinely violated by the PLA. They're attempting to infiltrate the country on all fronts - through the media, through their democratic system and by recruiting Taiwanese to infiltrate the country from within, same as they did in HK before the takeover. There should be heavy sanctions for what is happening already, and not just with HK and Taiwan. If the CCP were to invade this would be an action far beyond sanctions, we can't just throw all these people under the bus! Taiwan is an independent and free country with over 23 million people. It would be like watching them invade the Netherlands without sending military help. Mainland China is well connected and increasingly powerful, it's not like North Korea or a Soviet Union when they were close to economic collapse. In many ways the Chinese system is actually more resilient than the US or the EU. Taiwan needs to be defended, the CCP has to be stopped right there. If sanctions were all that was standing between them and Taiwan, the Republic of China would be history already.