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Curious how those hackers are affected by EU's sanctions. Do they even care or are they too busy rolling on the floor from the laughter?

vbezhenar 5y ago
Sanctions currently apply to eight individuals and four entities, and include an asset freeze and a travel ban. Not sure about specifics.
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago
  Do they have any assets in the EU? AFAIK those hackers are tolerated by their governments as long as they play ball and provide their services for black ops when needed and mostly live in gated upper class communities by the sea side and don't care to come to the EU any time soon.
  - afrcnc 5y ago
    They also can't do business with EU entities, so they're very likely locked out of the EU banking sector. They were already sanctioned in the US, so that leaves them very few banks that will process their payments.
    - londons_explore 5y ago
      But if they have the support of their home state, even these restrictions won't impact them much. They'll be issued false identities for use abroad, and almost any state would be able to issue an identity which could fool KYC requirements at a bank.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
    - Dolores12 5y ago
      They could not care less. Their own government will never let them have anything in EU.
- supergirl 5y ago
  they can't travel anywhere outside their countries I guess. even if the could, legally, I bet they won't risk it. speculating: maybe they also get issues with local banking, e.g. converting money or opening credit cards. banks are all connected and they might enforce the sanctions to be on the safe side.
campuscodi 5y ago
Not that much. Sanctions are used as a political tool and to signal that certain lines have been crossed.
- trompetenaccoun 5y ago
  If anything the EU's symbolic sanctions signal the respective states can continue doing what they're doing with practical impunity. Same as when they sanctioned a handful officials for the Xinjiang concentration camps and the people directly responsible aren't even on the list.
  - ben_w 5y ago
    International relations benefit from a range of sanctions, including very minor ones, because it allows you to ramp up and down pressure to suit the relative degree to which you care about any of the thousands of disagreements between nations, rather than just having a one-size-fits-all sledgehammer for every occasion.
    - trompetenaccoun 5y ago
      The argument is the sanctions are extremely lax and symbolical. They did nothing to improve the situation and appear to do more to appease the own population than put the CCP under pressure. "We're getting tough on Xi's regime", but in reality we aren't. Whatever happened to Never Again? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Never_again https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Never_again
      - ben_w 5y ago
        That these sanctions — which are for hacking rather than for genocide — are lax and symbolic is basically what I’m saying they need to be in order have room for things like “make sure China doesn’t invade Taiwan”. This is why there are also significantly greater sanctions against Russia for The Crimea and The Ukraine, and the sanctions against North Korea for the nukes. I agree that “Never again” was indeed never more than a slogan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excess_mortality_in_the_Soviet_Union_under_Joseph_Stalin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excess_mortality_in_the_Soviet... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history_(after_World_War_II) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history_(after_Wo...
giuliomagnifico 5y ago
I don’t know how efficiently these sanctions work but in example > Today's sanctions consist of a travel ban and an asset freeze imposed on the individuals, and an asset freeze imposed on the body. In addition, EU persons and entities are forbidden from making funds available to those listed. https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2020/10/22/malicious-cyber-attacks-eu-sanctions-two-individuals-and-one-body-over-2015-bundestag-hack/ https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2020... …so not completely useless, maybe not very effective but it’s important also the message to the nations who support them.
- londons_explore 5y ago
  If their home state was supportive, they would take those frozen assets as collateral for loans of equal value. Then effectively the frozen assets have no effect. One day, probably after the death of the sanctioned individual, those assets will be unfrozen and used to repay the state.

vbezhenar 5y ago

Sanctions currently apply to eight individuals and four entities, and include an asset freeze and a travel ban. Not sure about specifics.

ChuckNorris89 5y ago
Do they have any assets in the EU? AFAIK those hackers are tolerated by their governments as long as they play ball and provide their services for black ops when needed and mostly live in gated upper class communities by the sea side and don't care to come to the EU any time soon.
- afrcnc 5y ago
  They also can't do business with EU entities, so they're very likely locked out of the EU banking sector. They were already sanctioned in the US, so that leaves them very few banks that will process their payments.
  - londons_explore 5y ago
    But if they have the support of their home state, even these restrictions won't impact them much. They'll be issued false identities for use abroad, and almost any state would be able to issue an identity which could fool KYC requirements at a bank.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - Dolores12 5y ago
    They could not care less. Their own government will never let them have anything in EU.
supergirl 5y ago
they can't travel anywhere outside their countries I guess. even if the could, legally, I bet they won't risk it. speculating: maybe they also get issues with local banking, e.g. converting money or opening credit cards. banks are all connected and they might enforce the sanctions to be on the safe side.

campuscodi 5y ago

Not that much. Sanctions are used as a political tool and to signal that certain lines have been crossed.

trompetenaccoun 5y ago
If anything the EU's symbolic sanctions signal the respective states can continue doing what they're doing with practical impunity. Same as when they sanctioned a handful officials for the Xinjiang concentration camps and the people directly responsible aren't even on the list.
- ben_w 5y ago
  International relations benefit from a range of sanctions, including very minor ones, because it allows you to ramp up and down pressure to suit the relative degree to which you care about any of the thousands of disagreements between nations, rather than just having a one-size-fits-all sledgehammer for every occasion.
  - trompetenaccoun 5y ago
    The argument is the sanctions are extremely lax and symbolical. They did nothing to improve the situation and appear to do more to appease the own population than put the CCP under pressure. "We're getting tough on Xi's regime", but in reality we aren't. Whatever happened to Never Again? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Never_again https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Never_again
    - ben_w 5y ago
      That these sanctions — which are for hacking rather than for genocide — are lax and symbolic is basically what I’m saying they need to be in order have room for things like “make sure China doesn’t invade Taiwan”. This is why there are also significantly greater sanctions against Russia for The Crimea and The Ukraine, and the sanctions against North Korea for the nukes. I agree that “Never again” was indeed never more than a slogan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excess_mortality_in_the_Soviet_Union_under_Joseph_Stalin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excess_mortality_in_the_Soviet... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history_(after_World_War_II) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history_(after_Wo...

giuliomagnifico 5y ago

I don’t know how efficiently these sanctions work but in example > Today's sanctions consist of a travel ban and an asset freeze imposed on the individuals, and an asset freeze imposed on the body. In addition, EU persons and entities are forbidden from making funds available to those listed. https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2020/10/22/malicious-cyber-attacks-eu-sanctions-two-individuals-and-one-body-over-2015-bundestag-hack/ https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2020... …so not completely useless, maybe not very effective but it’s important also the message to the nations who support them.

londons_explore 5y ago
If their home state was supportive, they would take those frozen assets as collateral for loans of equal value. Then effectively the frozen assets have no effect. One day, probably after the death of the sanctioned individual, those assets will be unfrozen and used to repay the state.