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I agree that the CCP's incentives are to oppose such an investigation regardless of the true origin, especially after they've spent months digging in to that po

I agree that the CCP's incentives are to oppose such an investigation regardless of the true origin, especially after they've spent months digging in to that position. But if our goal is to reduce the risk of future pandemics, then do you have a better idea for a policy action to achieve that?

kelnos 5y ago
I don't think there is one. Determining the source requires cooperation from the Chinese government, and there is no way that cooperation can be forced if they don't want to give it. And even if there was, there's no guarantee that enough evidence or information remains after a year and a half for us to prove anything.
- joyeuse6701 5y ago
  There is. Assume it’s either zoonotic or lab, and then put in new protocols to address both. We aren’t resource constrained on this.
lamontcg 5y ago
Yes. That's why I'm pointing it out. People get Big Mad at China over the lab leak theory. I'm quite annoyed at China over deflecting investigation of the zoonotic origins because we're risking SARS-3 more or less. But the people yelling about the lab leak hypothesis are also useful idiots in deflecting investigation of the zoonotic origins, so I'm equally annoyed at them. It wasn't a lab leak. We aren't going to do anything about it. Something like it will probably happen again. I'm just stockpiling some nice N95s once the prices crash in a year or three. The human race, in general, is too collectively stupid and too easily manipulated to stop this from happening again (and everyone in this thread is part of the problem). [ And yes, everyone in this thread angry at the CCP I view as equally as bad as the CCP in being useless at preventing learning anything that'll prevent a future pandemic. A pox on both your houses. ]
- tripletao 5y ago
  So what policy action are you proposing? In other words, what do you think voters should push the American government (or whatever government you elect, assuming you live in a democracy) to do? If you believe that a lab accident is so unlikely as to not be worth investigating further, then your position is rapidly becoming as fringe as the opposite was four months ago--you disagree here with Tedros, Redfield, Baltimore, Baric, any quote I've seen anywhere from the intelligence community, and many other big names. But if that's your sincere belief, why wouldn't you push for a forensic investigation of natural origin (e.g., allowing scientists not permanently under the CCP's physical control to collect samples from agricultural sites, and ship them out under seal for testing outside China)? Finally, just for my curiosity: Do you agree with the consensus that the 1977 flu pandemic (which killed ~700k people) was probably a lab accident? Or do you think that one was definitely natural too?
- thunderbong 5y ago
  This is the first time I'm seeing the word 'pox' being used by someone! Till now I've only seen it being used in books!

kelnos 5y ago

I don't think there is one. Determining the source requires cooperation from the Chinese government, and there is no way that cooperation can be forced if they don't want to give it. And even if there was, there's no guarantee that enough evidence or information remains after a year and a half for us to prove anything.

joyeuse6701 5y ago
There is. Assume it’s either zoonotic or lab, and then put in new protocols to address both. We aren’t resource constrained on this.

lamontcg 5y ago

Yes. That's why I'm pointing it out. People get Big Mad at China over the lab leak theory. I'm quite annoyed at China over deflecting investigation of the zoonotic origins because we're risking SARS-3 more or less. But the people yelling about the lab leak hypothesis are also useful idiots in deflecting investigation of the zoonotic origins, so I'm equally annoyed at them. It wasn't a lab leak. We aren't going to do anything about it. Something like it will probably happen again. I'm just stockpiling some nice N95s once the prices crash in a year or three. The human race, in general, is too collectively stupid and too easily manipulated to stop this from happening again (and everyone in this thread is part of the problem). [ And yes, everyone in this thread angry at the CCP I view as equally as bad as the CCP in being useless at preventing learning anything that'll prevent a future pandemic. A pox on both your houses. ]

tripletao 5y ago
So what policy action are you proposing? In other words, what do you think voters should push the American government (or whatever government you elect, assuming you live in a democracy) to do? If you believe that a lab accident is so unlikely as to not be worth investigating further, then your position is rapidly becoming as fringe as the opposite was four months ago--you disagree here with Tedros, Redfield, Baltimore, Baric, any quote I've seen anywhere from the intelligence community, and many other big names. But if that's your sincere belief, why wouldn't you push for a forensic investigation of natural origin (e.g., allowing scientists not permanently under the CCP's physical control to collect samples from agricultural sites, and ship them out under seal for testing outside China)? Finally, just for my curiosity: Do you agree with the consensus that the 1977 flu pandemic (which killed ~700k people) was probably a lab accident? Or do you think that one was definitely natural too?
thunderbong 5y ago
This is the first time I'm seeing the word 'pox' being used by someone! Till now I've only seen it being used in books!