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> China alone responsible for 80 percent of global annual installations between 2019 and 2020. This will be the opening sentence in the history books describin

> China alone responsible for 80 percent of global annual installations between 2019 and 2020. This will be the opening sentence in the history books describing the decline of the western powers. US & EU really need to get their act together if they want to remain relevant.

contriban 5y ago
Can this really be solved? If "China" decides to take action, it can do so without opposition, with billions of dollars, with megaprojects that span thousands of kilometers, even. Their huge high-speed rail is another example. Can the US do that? Or even the EU? It will cost more, it will take longer, and it will be smaller. This is, IMHO, why China tops all of the charts lately. The democratic, federal west simply cannot compete on scale.
- pydry 5y ago
  The US and EU could in theory but it would take time and deprioritization of corporate profits. The appetite isn't really there.
- private_equity 5y ago
  It's more about intent instead of blockage from opposition. We conveniently pass the buck to opposition because it is easy to do so. There is opposition but where is it when $$$ are poured into unnecessary wars? When the taxes are increased? When scam happens?
- pjc50 5y ago
  The UK alone spent £372bn on covid response: https://www.nao.org.uk/covid-19/cost-tracker/ https://www.nao.org.uk/covid-19/cost-tracker/ It is, fundamentally, a choice. The UK has been cutting off megaproject funding since the APT (and before): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Passenger_Train https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Passenger_Train But it's not just a government choice, it's a choice of whole echelons of society. There are plenty of people who still get paid if the megaproject fails. We've seen a lot of that in the COVID response; pretty much every minister has been accused of routing hundreds of millions to their mates for items that were never delivered. (To me, the unique thing about WW2 was that it forced the UK out of complacency and into employing diverse talent as a matter of raw necessity, because suddenly it was no longer possible to buy your way out of it as an individual. Suddenly the establishment would let a woman fix the Spitfires, a gay man break the codes, and nobody complained about all the Poles coming over here defending our country.)
- pantalaimon 5y ago
  Germany passed legislation that makes it harder to build renewables like wind turbines. This is very much a deliberate decision.
  - rjknight 5y ago
    Paradoxically, the UK made it harder to build on-shore wind turbines, resulting in the UK having the largest offshore wind capacity in the world. Calling the UK "the Saudi Arabia of wind" is perhaps a bit silly, but it's an interesting example of how regulatory actions can't be examined in isolation.
    - hannob 5y ago
      UK is exceptionally well positioned for offshore wind, being surrounded by water. Few countries have that luxury. I'm all for more offshore wind, but onshore wind will have to play an important role for future energy.
  - choeger 5y ago
    For good reasons, unfortunately. The intensity of renewable energy land usage is staggering in some places.
    - pantalaimon 5y ago
      I doubt it comes close to the land use by lignite mining which is still ongoing
- hannob 5y ago
  Renewable energy is exceptionally popular and it's getting so cheap that money is hardly an issue any more. The biggest roadblock is opposition from industries that profit from the past energy system. This combined with listening too much to vocal opposition to renewables, which is usually loud, but a minority (local exceptions exist).
- Gibbon1 5y ago
  The west can do it but we're hamstrung by a system of privatized taxes that makes everything cost two to three times more than it should. Privatized taxes as in when the government needs to buy land for something it has to pay inflated prices inside a ginormous real estate bubble. Labor is expensive because laborers have to pay 50% of their wages as rents.
- h0l0cube 5y ago
  > The democratic, federal west simply cannot compete And this is why western nations should not allow China unilateral trade freedoms until it's government addresses the human rights of its own citizens. To do so, imperils the progress human rights (esp. workers' rights) within western nations. While China's ability to marshal it's resources in awe-inspiring, I'm certain no average worker/citizen in the west wants their freedoms to go retrograde... until it's too late and it's the only way to get a job.
  - MrBuddyCasino 5y ago
    "While China lifted an unprecedented amount of people out of poverty and can acomplish things that we were once able to accomplish but now have become unthinkable, and the west encounters collapse of birth rates, trillions in new dept and thus inflation of assets like housing, takeover of education, academia and Big Corp by woke zealots, and transformation of High Trust into Low Trust societies due to unchecked immigration and lax law enforcement, somehow China should follow the west's lead."
    - h0l0cube 5y ago
      I'm not sure there's a coherent argument here for me to follow. But the centre of my argument is: if you can't open criticize a government, you have little recourse if it decides to put your interests last in the name of, say, moving some economic lever that profits people in wealth and power. The western world has funnelled much of its money into a China, and this has given China the economic resources to uplift its own citizens out of poverty. What it hasn't given them is the right to criticize the government, or workers' rights that much of the western world takes for granted (Foxconn being an example of one of the better workplaces). If you live in the west, and you like your lifestyle, you ought to be worried about what's coming, and for the US, regression of workers' rights in the name of being globally competitive is already in full swing. If you had the option of being able to challenge your government in a democracy, or a centrally managed autocracy that might throw you in jail, which do you choose?
      - MrBuddyCasino 5y ago
- Iv 5y ago
  US can decide to go on a useless 2 trillions USD war. It can find budget for a trillion dollar of tax cuts. US HAS decided to lose leadership on ecology. HAS decided to underfund fusion and renewables research.
sien 5y ago
China is huge in coal too. China's installed coal generation in 2020 is bigger than the rest of the world combined. https://www.statista.com/chart/24544/world-electricity-generation-by-source-and-country-region/ https://www.statista.com/chart/24544/world-electricity-gener...
roenxi 5y ago
The opening sentence will be some time in the 1960s through to the 1980s. We're watching the midway point of trends that locked in around then.
edhelas 5y ago
China is installing a lot of renewable AND is also growing its own economy a lot WITH coal/gaz/oil. This is simple math, China is NOT replacing carbon sources with renewable or nuclear. They are stacking them. China is planning to open more coal plants in 2030 than the total coal plants that will be closed down in the rest of the world at this date.
- Iv 5y ago
  And will still peak its CO2 per capita at a much lower level than US is right now.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
I can't speak for the EU, but frankly I think that ship has long since sailed here in the US. Our country is so far up its own ass it can see the back of its teeth. My estimation is that meaningful change will only come in the form of total collapse.

contriban 5y ago

Can this really be solved? If "China" decides to take action, it can do so without opposition, with billions of dollars, with megaprojects that span thousands of kilometers, even. Their huge high-speed rail is another example. Can the US do that? Or even the EU? It will cost more, it will take longer, and it will be smaller. This is, IMHO, why China tops all of the charts lately. The democratic, federal west simply cannot compete on scale.

pydry 5y ago
The US and EU could in theory but it would take time and deprioritization of corporate profits. The appetite isn't really there.
private_equity 5y ago
It's more about intent instead of blockage from opposition. We conveniently pass the buck to opposition because it is easy to do so. There is opposition but where is it when $$$ are poured into unnecessary wars? When the taxes are increased? When scam happens?
pjc50 5y ago
The UK alone spent £372bn on covid response: https://www.nao.org.uk/covid-19/cost-tracker/ https://www.nao.org.uk/covid-19/cost-tracker/ It is, fundamentally, a choice. The UK has been cutting off megaproject funding since the APT (and before): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Passenger_Train https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Passenger_Train But it's not just a government choice, it's a choice of whole echelons of society. There are plenty of people who still get paid if the megaproject fails. We've seen a lot of that in the COVID response; pretty much every minister has been accused of routing hundreds of millions to their mates for items that were never delivered. (To me, the unique thing about WW2 was that it forced the UK out of complacency and into employing diverse talent as a matter of raw necessity, because suddenly it was no longer possible to buy your way out of it as an individual. Suddenly the establishment would let a woman fix the Spitfires, a gay man break the codes, and nobody complained about all the Poles coming over here defending our country.)
pantalaimon 5y ago
Germany passed legislation that makes it harder to build renewables like wind turbines. This is very much a deliberate decision.
- rjknight 5y ago
  Paradoxically, the UK made it harder to build on-shore wind turbines, resulting in the UK having the largest offshore wind capacity in the world. Calling the UK "the Saudi Arabia of wind" is perhaps a bit silly, but it's an interesting example of how regulatory actions can't be examined in isolation.
  - hannob 5y ago
    UK is exceptionally well positioned for offshore wind, being surrounded by water. Few countries have that luxury. I'm all for more offshore wind, but onshore wind will have to play an important role for future energy.
- choeger 5y ago
  For good reasons, unfortunately. The intensity of renewable energy land usage is staggering in some places.
  - pantalaimon 5y ago
    I doubt it comes close to the land use by lignite mining which is still ongoing
hannob 5y ago
Renewable energy is exceptionally popular and it's getting so cheap that money is hardly an issue any more. The biggest roadblock is opposition from industries that profit from the past energy system. This combined with listening too much to vocal opposition to renewables, which is usually loud, but a minority (local exceptions exist).
Gibbon1 5y ago
The west can do it but we're hamstrung by a system of privatized taxes that makes everything cost two to three times more than it should. Privatized taxes as in when the government needs to buy land for something it has to pay inflated prices inside a ginormous real estate bubble. Labor is expensive because laborers have to pay 50% of their wages as rents.
h0l0cube 5y ago
> The democratic, federal west simply cannot compete And this is why western nations should not allow China unilateral trade freedoms until it's government addresses the human rights of its own citizens. To do so, imperils the progress human rights (esp. workers' rights) within western nations. While China's ability to marshal it's resources in awe-inspiring, I'm certain no average worker/citizen in the west wants their freedoms to go retrograde... until it's too late and it's the only way to get a job.
- MrBuddyCasino 5y ago
  "While China lifted an unprecedented amount of people out of poverty and can acomplish things that we were once able to accomplish but now have become unthinkable, and the west encounters collapse of birth rates, trillions in new dept and thus inflation of assets like housing, takeover of education, academia and Big Corp by woke zealots, and transformation of High Trust into Low Trust societies due to unchecked immigration and lax law enforcement, somehow China should follow the west's lead."
  - h0l0cube 5y ago
    I'm not sure there's a coherent argument here for me to follow. But the centre of my argument is: if you can't open criticize a government, you have little recourse if it decides to put your interests last in the name of, say, moving some economic lever that profits people in wealth and power. The western world has funnelled much of its money into a China, and this has given China the economic resources to uplift its own citizens out of poverty. What it hasn't given them is the right to criticize the government, or workers' rights that much of the western world takes for granted (Foxconn being an example of one of the better workplaces). If you live in the west, and you like your lifestyle, you ought to be worried about what's coming, and for the US, regression of workers' rights in the name of being globally competitive is already in full swing. If you had the option of being able to challenge your government in a democracy, or a centrally managed autocracy that might throw you in jail, which do you choose?
    - MrBuddyCasino 5y ago
Iv 5y ago
US can decide to go on a useless 2 trillions USD war. It can find budget for a trillion dollar of tax cuts. US HAS decided to lose leadership on ecology. HAS decided to underfund fusion and renewables research.

sien 5y ago

China is huge in coal too. China's installed coal generation in 2020 is bigger than the rest of the world combined. https://www.statista.com/chart/24544/world-electricity-generation-by-source-and-country-region/ https://www.statista.com/chart/24544/world-electricity-gener...

roenxi 5y ago

The opening sentence will be some time in the 1960s through to the 1980s. We're watching the midway point of trends that locked in around then.

edhelas 5y ago

China is installing a lot of renewable AND is also growing its own economy a lot WITH coal/gaz/oil. This is simple math, China is NOT replacing carbon sources with renewable or nuclear. They are stacking them. China is planning to open more coal plants in 2030 than the total coal plants that will be closed down in the rest of the world at this date.

Iv 5y ago
And will still peak its CO2 per capita at a much lower level than US is right now.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago

I can't speak for the EU, but frankly I think that ship has long since sailed here in the US. Our country is so far up its own ass it can see the back of its teeth. My estimation is that meaningful change will only come in the form of total collapse.