5 ms·

The TFG has really no control over the country, not even in the capital. So Somalia, or at least the TFG, is pretty much an anarchist state (or non-state). On

by gasull 15y ago

The TFG has really no control over the country, not even in the capital. So Somalia, or at least the TFG, is pretty much an anarchist state (or non-state). On the other hand, Somalia is doing poorly compared to developed nations, but better than a lot of countries with (corrupt) Government and police in Africa. At least in Somalia/TFG they aren't powerful enough to do any harm. E.g. they have the fastest and cheaper cell phone and Internet providers in Africa.

idonthack 15y ago
"anarchist" does not indicate the simple lack of a stable government, it indicates a subscription to one of the many political/social theories/philosophies in the category known as "anarchism". somalia is very obviously not an anarchist society, for that would require the majority of the population to be philosophically anarchist and organized in an anarchist manner. it is a collection of statist factions, each attempting to impose a state.
- gasull 15y ago
  It's pretty much an anarcho-capitalist society.
  - idonthack 15y ago
    most anarchists think that "anarcho-capitalism" is an oxymoron at best, and cryptofeudalism at worst. even those that disagree must acknowledge it is a point of much debate. personally, i believe that capitalism is inherently statist. a state is simply an entity with a large amount of land capital.
    - gasull 15y ago
      > most anarchists think that "anarcho-capitalism" is an oxymoron at best, and cryptofeudalism at worst Just because most anarchists dislike anarcho-capitalism, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist as an ideology. Look at the Wikipedia article. > personally, i believe that capitalism is inherently statist Maybe its name it's unfortunate. Some people call it free-market anarchism, but that includes other kinds like mutualism, agorism, etc. > a state is simply an entity with a large amount of land capital. Land and capital are not the same thing. You can have any of them independently of the other. Are you aware of geolibertarianism? Also you're blending together capitalism (and its crony state) as a system with capitalism as a free market ideology. And I hope you don't confuse free market with taxing the poor and subsidizing the rich as crony governments do. Last but not least, please read about panarchism. All flavors of anarchism can coexist with each other, because they aren't really that different.
shii 15y ago
Why people focus on only the TFG is beyond me? De facto, they are nobody despite the fact that they have backing of the US/UN/AMISOM/AU. Do you see this map[1]? TFG stronghold (a few city blocks you can count with your hands) is pitifully small. They have no legitimacy. No confidence from the people. It's a sham where a massive Parliament (more than 500 individuals, almost 100% comprised of people who live in western nations throughout the year and haven't lived in Somalia in ages) gets bankrolled, the cabinet and the rest of the bloated executive branch stuffs their pockets with cash from the US. A president who was the leader of the leading Islamist militia group and now has switched shirts and flies around everywhere as "President of Somalia" (this is analogous to having OBL decide there's better pay to sit in Kabul as the President of Afghanistan and the world recognizing and funding him as a new legitimate head of state. While on the other hand you have somewhere like Somaliland that has actually organized real, transparent, democratic elections, a functioning government that actually has confidence amongst its citizenry and yet isn't recognized by anyone and is basically ignored. Forget the fact that it's innovating in the mobile banking space at a faster pace than most other African nations, a booming renewable energy sector, and plenty of opportunities for outside investment. Sure, it has plenty of problems to deal with itself, is in active conflict with its neighbor Puntland, and still has a problem with corruption, tribalism, and nepotism...yet it is one of the few signs of progress in that nation. When people say anarcho-capitalist society and things like that, they picture homesteaders or other idealistic groups of people living off the land with no rulers and loose confederations at best. Think Spain[2] in the 20th century. Somalia is quite unlike that. [1] http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/9/9f/20110206001926!Somalia_map_states_regions_districts.png http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/9/9f/2... [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism_in_Spain http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism_in_Spain

by gasull 15y ago

idonthack 15y ago

"anarchist" does not indicate the simple lack of a stable government, it indicates a subscription to one of the many political/social theories/philosophies in the category known as "anarchism". somalia is very obviously not an anarchist society, for that would require the majority of the population to be philosophically anarchist and organized in an anarchist manner. it is a collection of statist factions, each attempting to impose a state.

gasull 15y ago
It's pretty much an anarcho-capitalist society.
- idonthack 15y ago
  most anarchists think that "anarcho-capitalism" is an oxymoron at best, and cryptofeudalism at worst. even those that disagree must acknowledge it is a point of much debate. personally, i believe that capitalism is inherently statist. a state is simply an entity with a large amount of land capital.
  - gasull 15y ago
    > most anarchists think that "anarcho-capitalism" is an oxymoron at best, and cryptofeudalism at worst Just because most anarchists dislike anarcho-capitalism, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist as an ideology. Look at the Wikipedia article. > personally, i believe that capitalism is inherently statist Maybe its name it's unfortunate. Some people call it free-market anarchism, but that includes other kinds like mutualism, agorism, etc. > a state is simply an entity with a large amount of land capital. Land and capital are not the same thing. You can have any of them independently of the other. Are you aware of geolibertarianism? Also you're blending together capitalism (and its crony state) as a system with capitalism as a free market ideology. And I hope you don't confuse free market with taxing the poor and subsidizing the rich as crony governments do. Last but not least, please read about panarchism. All flavors of anarchism can coexist with each other, because they aren't really that different.

shii 15y ago

Why people focus on only the TFG is beyond me? De facto, they are nobody despite the fact that they have backing of the US/UN/AMISOM/AU. Do you see this map[1]? TFG stronghold (a few city blocks you can count with your hands) is pitifully small. They have no legitimacy. No confidence from the people. It's a sham where a massive Parliament (more than 500 individuals, almost 100% comprised of people who live in western nations throughout the year and haven't lived in Somalia in ages) gets bankrolled, the cabinet and the rest of the bloated executive branch stuffs their pockets with cash from the US. A president who was the leader of the leading Islamist militia group and now has switched shirts and flies around everywhere as "President of Somalia" (this is analogous to having OBL decide there's better pay to sit in Kabul as the President of Afghanistan and the world recognizing and funding him as a new legitimate head of state. While on the other hand you have somewhere like Somaliland that has actually organized real, transparent, democratic elections, a functioning government that actually has confidence amongst its citizenry and yet isn't recognized by anyone and is basically ignored. Forget the fact that it's innovating in the mobile banking space at a faster pace than most other African nations, a booming renewable energy sector, and plenty of opportunities for outside investment. Sure, it has plenty of problems to deal with itself, is in active conflict with its neighbor Puntland, and still has a problem with corruption, tribalism, and nepotism...yet it is one of the few signs of progress in that nation. When people say anarcho-capitalist society and things like that, they picture homesteaders or other idealistic groups of people living off the land with no rulers and loose confederations at best. Think Spain[2] in the 20th century. Somalia is quite unlike that. [1] http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/9/9f/20110206001926!Somalia_map_states_regions_districts.png http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/9/9f/2... [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism_in_Spain http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism_in_Spain