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An interesting example of this is that handwritten hiragana (one of Japan's two non-ideographic character sets) has many variations for some characters, some of

An interesting example of this is that handwritten hiragana (one of Japan's two non-ideographic character sets) has many variations for some characters, some of which are regional and obscure enough that people won't recognize them. In some cases the variants look like other characters, which can make it very difficult to decipher handwritten text. In this example: http://www.shosha.kokugo.juen.ac.jp/oshiki/ronbun/currentofresearch96/fig1.jpg http://www.shosha.kokugo.juen.ac.jp/oshiki/ronbun/currentofr... some of the less common variants (but common enough that I've encountered them) of 'wa わ' look similar to 'yu ゆ', so as a foreigner I found this very challenging and mysterious until I did the research. In comparison the various forms of English characters don't feel so bad anymore :-) If you're familiar with hiragana you'll also notice that a variant of 'を' looks quite similar to 'さ'. Hiragana also used to include characters that are no longer used in most contexts (you'll still see them in names), like the historical 'wi ゐ' (you can't even input this with some IMEs or look it up by name in en/jp dictionaries). A historian would probably be aware of some western equivalents of this - the only one I'm familiar with is 'et &' (as in 'etc'), which you'll see in old documents as '&c'. Oh, and how could I forget: if you ask for the USD/JPY exchange rate, Google will call it "Japanese Yen", which is written 'en 円'... because the 'ye' character is no longer a part of hiragana. (I don't actually know whether it's still commonly pronounced as 'yen'. I wouldn't be surprised...)

sauropterygia 5y ago
It's not pronounced as 'yen' anymore, but it was in the past. Some of the historical kana that are not commonly used anymore, such as ゐ、ゑ used to express sounds that are not distinguished anymore, but were retained in historical orthography for a while. It seems ゑ 'we' was pronounced 'ye' in the past (It seems え also was, at least in the middle ages, hence old forms such as Yedo for Edo 江戸) Nowadays, ゐ is pronounced 'i' and ゑ as 'e', so words that were written with them now just use い and え instead. ゐ、ゑ became most relegated to bring an 'antiquated' look. Think Yebisu (ヱビス) beer, written with ヱ, the katakana equivalent of ゑ, that also kept the archaism in the romanization, as Yen did. So ヱビス or ゑびす are read as 'Ebisu' even if written with the archaic kana But some Ainu and Okinawan orthographies have adopted their used (in case of Ainu only the katakana variants, I believe) を 'wo' (but really pronounced 'o') nowadays is only used as the 'direct object particle', but it was used in words like をとこ (男 man). As it ceased to sound different from お, subsequent orthographic reforms also removed it from use except in the particle function.
- kevingadd 5y ago
  Oh, that anecdote about 男 is fascinating. I never would have guessed. Thanks for the insight :) The various ways to pronounce the characters (particles, in particular) definitely adds another layer of depth here.
  - sauropterygia 5y ago
    I suggest you read this article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_kana_orthography https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_kana_orthography It explains the shifts in pronunciantion in Japanese, making old Japanaese kana ortography differ from actual pronunciations, as in English orthography today. The remains of the old system can still be seen in the particles: A particular shift is medial and final h/f->w and w->∅(except) for 'wa'. This meant that non initial は was pronounced 'wa'. For example, かわ 'kawa' (river) was written as かは before the reform. The かは reflected and even older pronounciation of 'kapa' for the word There's a shift p->f->h on the は 'row' explaining why ふ is 'fu', and why ば is 'ba', as 'b' is the voiced equivalento of 'p' and not 'h') There was the same thing for へ, かえる 'kaeru' (frog) was written かへる historically, reflecting these changes. From wiktionary: ⟨kaperu⟩ → /kaperu/ → /kaferu/ → /kaweru/ → /kajeru/ → /kaeru/ (notice we -> ye -> e shift of ゑ here too, this one recent enough to influence the word 'Yen') Source: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E8%9B%99#Japanese https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E8%9B%99#Japanese So the particles は and へ, being pronounced 'wa' and 'e' instead of the expected 'ha' and 'he' are just remainers of this old orthography conventions, and give hints that the old form where probably pronounced 'pa' and 'pe' over a thousand years ago! Facinating stuff indeed :)
sauropterygia 5y ago
Cool link. さ is sometimes written with the parts joined, as an inverted ち: https://i1.sndcdn.com/avatars-000217370013-jmqo19-t240x240.jpg https://i1.sndcdn.com/avatars-000217370013-jmqo19-t240x240.j... ゆ sometimes has the last stroke forming a loop: https://yu-yu1126.net/wp-content/themes/twentyseventeen-child/common/images/com_logo.png https://yu-yu1126.net/wp-content/themes/twentyseventeen-chil... い is written with the parts joined, as an mirrowed "N": https://livedoor.blogimg.jp/benirabou/imgs/2/b/2b8291ac.jpg https://livedoor.blogimg.jp/benirabou/imgs/2/b/2b8291ac.jpg こ I join the upper and lower parts, making it similar to 乙. The same for た and に. You can see it printed in the image above too. し sometimes has no pronounced 'hook', becoming almost a vertical line. https://thumb.ac-illust.com/17/17111801d47c32db49b2d7fb94471733_w.jpeg https://thumb.ac-illust.com/17/17111801d47c32db49b2d7fb94471... There's also a variation that has a small 'beak' in the upper parte, as ら does. https://t.pimg.jp/032/836/278/1/32836278.jpg https://t.pimg.jp/032/836/278/1/32836278.jpg I did no find a image with printed text of these variations quickly though. A have never seen much variation on katanaka.

sauropterygia 5y ago

It's not pronounced as 'yen' anymore, but it was in the past. Some of the historical kana that are not commonly used anymore, such as ゐ、ゑ used to express sounds that are not distinguished anymore, but were retained in historical orthography for a while. It seems ゑ 'we' was pronounced 'ye' in the past (It seems え also was, at least in the middle ages, hence old forms such as Yedo for Edo 江戸) Nowadays, ゐ is pronounced 'i' and ゑ as 'e', so words that were written with them now just use い and え instead. ゐ、ゑ became most relegated to bring an 'antiquated' look. Think Yebisu (ヱビス) beer, written with ヱ, the katakana equivalent of ゑ, that also kept the archaism in the romanization, as Yen did. So ヱビス or ゑびす are read as 'Ebisu' even if written with the archaic kana But some Ainu and Okinawan orthographies have adopted their used (in case of Ainu only the katakana variants, I believe) を 'wo' (but really pronounced 'o') nowadays is only used as the 'direct object particle', but it was used in words like をとこ (男 man). As it ceased to sound different from お, subsequent orthographic reforms also removed it from use except in the particle function.

kevingadd 5y ago
Oh, that anecdote about 男 is fascinating. I never would have guessed. Thanks for the insight :) The various ways to pronounce the characters (particles, in particular) definitely adds another layer of depth here.
- sauropterygia 5y ago
  I suggest you read this article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_kana_orthography https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_kana_orthography It explains the shifts in pronunciantion in Japanese, making old Japanaese kana ortography differ from actual pronunciations, as in English orthography today. The remains of the old system can still be seen in the particles: A particular shift is medial and final h/f->w and w->∅(except) for 'wa'. This meant that non initial は was pronounced 'wa'. For example, かわ 'kawa' (river) was written as かは before the reform. The かは reflected and even older pronounciation of 'kapa' for the word There's a shift p->f->h on the は 'row' explaining why ふ is 'fu', and why ば is 'ba', as 'b' is the voiced equivalento of 'p' and not 'h') There was the same thing for へ, かえる 'kaeru' (frog) was written かへる historically, reflecting these changes. From wiktionary: ⟨kaperu⟩ → /kaperu/ → /kaferu/ → /kaweru/ → /kajeru/ → /kaeru/ (notice we -> ye -> e shift of ゑ here too, this one recent enough to influence the word 'Yen') Source: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E8%9B%99#Japanese https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E8%9B%99#Japanese So the particles は and へ, being pronounced 'wa' and 'e' instead of the expected 'ha' and 'he' are just remainers of this old orthography conventions, and give hints that the old form where probably pronounced 'pa' and 'pe' over a thousand years ago! Facinating stuff indeed :)

sauropterygia 5y ago

Cool link. さ is sometimes written with the parts joined, as an inverted ち: https://i1.sndcdn.com/avatars-000217370013-jmqo19-t240x240.jpg https://i1.sndcdn.com/avatars-000217370013-jmqo19-t240x240.j... ゆ sometimes has the last stroke forming a loop: https://yu-yu1126.net/wp-content/themes/twentyseventeen-child/common/images/com_logo.png https://yu-yu1126.net/wp-content/themes/twentyseventeen-chil... い is written with the parts joined, as an mirrowed "N": https://livedoor.blogimg.jp/benirabou/imgs/2/b/2b8291ac.jpg https://livedoor.blogimg.jp/benirabou/imgs/2/b/2b8291ac.jpg こ I join the upper and lower parts, making it similar to 乙. The same for た and に. You can see it printed in the image above too. し sometimes has no pronounced 'hook', becoming almost a vertical line. https://thumb.ac-illust.com/17/17111801d47c32db49b2d7fb94471733_w.jpeg https://thumb.ac-illust.com/17/17111801d47c32db49b2d7fb94471... There's also a variation that has a small 'beak' in the upper parte, as ら does. https://t.pimg.jp/032/836/278/1/32836278.jpg https://t.pimg.jp/032/836/278/1/32836278.jpg I did no find a image with printed text of these variations quickly though. A have never seen much variation on katanaka.