8 ms·

Same reason that this conflict always gets the same optics in international media — jewish lives are worth less. At first, as you don't want to believe it, you

Same reason that this conflict always gets the same optics in international media — jewish lives are worth less. At first, as you don't want to believe it, you argue, you investigate, you really try to find any sane reason that while these things are happening on ground with you and your family, everybody else still sees a different picture, and then you just come to realisation that there's no other explanation for it.

golemiprague 5y ago
Indeed, there is also the discussion on "proportionality" or "civilian buildings" which never appears in any other conflict. When proportinality is discussed it is always some demand from Israel to equal number of total killed, not the actual proportion of militants killed vs. civilians. Nobody suggest that Israel should kill 10 civilians for each militant , which is the rate of Israeli killed by Gazans, one soldier and 10 civilians. Note also the diversion from "civilians" to "civilian buildings". Since the Gaza militant are operating from positions which are not distinuishable from regular civilian building the media now complains why those position are bombed. So now Israel is not allowed to kill militant because of the way the balcony looks. The more accurate and careful Israel become the media narrow the definition of what is a military target. Basically they demand different standards from Israel than from any other country, which is discrimination and therefore when directed to only one nation, racism. I am not surprised, media and politicians must cater for the growing Muslim population in western contry and to the overwhelming majority in social media, a billion Muslims vs 10 million Jews. Every claim by the Muslims is multiplied and reverberating by the echo chamber. So the media just follows to cater for them, it is a bit of decision besuiness and a bit of a political belief peppered with classic racism against Jews. If google had an option they would have been on the Muslims side with no hesitation, it is just the current laws that prevented them.
mcguire 5y ago
Israeli lives are worth at least $400 / year each to the United States, given the $3.3B annual aid and a population of 9M. Since 2007, when the US stopped economic aid, it's been entirely military aid. (https://explorer.usaid.gov/cd/ISR https://explorer.usaid.gov/cd/ISR) In total, Afghanistan gets more, $4.9B, but that only comes to $129 per Afghan. (That's the "you break it, you bought it" plan, I guess.) The next highest is Jordan, $1.7B or $170 per each. (Yeah, we're paying for both sides of this dust-up.) So I think we can agree that Jewish lives are worth quite a lot. Just wish they could get along with their neighbors.
- sequoia 5y ago
  Just to clarify: these are the neighbours that expelled all their Jews leaving them refugees in Israel and also tried to destroy the country and many of which have not stopped trying for its entire history. Getting along takes two.
  - tomcooks 5y ago
    Lol right, the rapist and the raped need to find a compromise
  - sofixa 5y ago
    > Just to clarify: these are the neighbours that expelled all their Jews leaving them refugees in Israel and also tried to destroy the country and many of which have not stopped trying for its entire history. Getting along takes two Sure, if you decide to start there. If you start a little further away, around WWI and before WWII, you have Jews settling lands where they were a small minority en masse, and after WWII mass migration there ( for very good reasons), and active Jewish and Arab boycotts for a UN proposed and unfair towards the Arabs partition of the land ( like murdering the UN negotiator by Jews). Israel doesn't help its case for peaceful coexistence, if there is even such a case, by illegally occupying, ethnic cleansing and resettling Palestinian lands. If Israel wanted peace, it is the main party that can actually do something about it, but they do the opposite, up to and including that Israel is a country for Jews in their constitution, while refusing to acknowledge Palestine is a thing. Where should the Palestinians go?
    - gataca 5y ago
      What does Jews buying swamps in pre-state Israel have to do with Iraqi or Egyptian Jews, for example, who were ethnically cleansed? I'm not seeing the connection
      - sofixa 5y ago
        The connection is that once Zionism was an actual threat and Jews were trying to get the whole of Palestine, and massacres started on both sides, Muslims around the world took the side of their "brothers" in the "war".
deanCommie 5y ago
But more Palestenian lives are being lost. Purely from a numbers perspective if you put aside all other variables or blame, wouldn't that explain why one side is being criticized extra right now?
- LeoNatan25 5y ago
  How about criticizing Hamas, a terrorist organization, for shooting rockets at civilian populations of a country with one of the most advanced armies of the world? How about criticizing Hamas for shooting these rockets from civilian centers? Seems like the media is willfully ignorant here. Then you have nonsense like: https://www.vox.com/2014/7/17/5912189/yes-gaza-militants-hide-rockets-in-schools-but-israel-doesnt-have-to https://www.vox.com/2014/7/17/5912189/yes-gaza-militants-hid... Clearly this smells foul.
  - sofixa 5y ago
    > How about criticizing Hamas for shooting these rockets from civilian centers? How about criticizing Israel, a country with one of the most advanced militaries in the world, for bombing civilians that can't defend themselves, in retaliation for very basic level attacks by a terrorist group Israel is perfectly capable of defending itself from? Hamas are the bad guys, Israel are even worse because they could show restraint and not murder civilians, not evict Arabs and resettle their lands with Jews and all the other war crimey shit they do, yet they still do that, under a very corrupt leader that mostly stays in power with nationalistic and proto-fascistic rhetoric.
  - roelschroeven 5y ago
    How about criticizing both Hamas and Israel for shooting rockets at civilians? Blame can go both ways. On top of that, many people, me included, criticize Israel for illegally occupying Palestinian territory, stealing houses from Arab Israels, and generally treating Palestinians as second-rate citizens and worse. There's simply no excuse for that. Imagine yourself in a situation like that. Whatever you do, whoever you complain to, the situation only gets worse. You're helpless against enormous injustice. While I don't condone violence, I do understand why people resort to violence when everything else fails.
kennywinker 5y ago
I'm sorry to hear you're living through violence. That sounds horrible, and I hope you and your family are safe. I see you conflating criticism of the actions of the Israeli government with opposition to Jewish lives. They are not the same. I oppose the Israeli government's policies and actions towards Palestine, but that does not mean I wish harm on you or your family, nor does it mean I don't see and value the Israeli lives lost during this conflict. There ARE other explanations for it.
- golergka 5y ago
  > I see you conflating criticism of the actions of the Israeli government with opposition to Jewish lives. No. I'm saying that putting israeli government under a completely different set of standards than any other country in the world cannot be explained with anything else rather than pure anti-semitism.
  - M277 5y ago
    What different standards do you mean?
    - golergka 5y ago
      I've never, in any other conflict, witnessed a public opinion on the side of the aggressor. I've never, in any other conflict, seen an army that's not fighting overseas, but is desperately trying to prevent massive loss of life in it's own population, accused of "disproportionate" response — even though it would take measures to prevent any casualties that are completely unprecedented in world practices and makes achieving it's goals (see above) significantly harder. I've never in my life seen calls for genocide of entire nation (that's exactly what "from the river to the sea" means, if you're not aware) widely supported through out the world. Every time this conflict happens again, I can't help but realise that if it was not for IDF, my family would have long have been brutally killed, and all those first-world liberals who're so busy fighting for their causes wouldn't even mind.
      - 5y ago
gataca 5y ago
looks like you hit a nerve by correctly diagnosing the situation.

golemiprague 5y ago

Indeed, there is also the discussion on "proportionality" or "civilian buildings" which never appears in any other conflict. When proportinality is discussed it is always some demand from Israel to equal number of total killed, not the actual proportion of militants killed vs. civilians. Nobody suggest that Israel should kill 10 civilians for each militant , which is the rate of Israeli killed by Gazans, one soldier and 10 civilians. Note also the diversion from "civilians" to "civilian buildings". Since the Gaza militant are operating from positions which are not distinuishable from regular civilian building the media now complains why those position are bombed. So now Israel is not allowed to kill militant because of the way the balcony looks. The more accurate and careful Israel become the media narrow the definition of what is a military target. Basically they demand different standards from Israel than from any other country, which is discrimination and therefore when directed to only one nation, racism. I am not surprised, media and politicians must cater for the growing Muslim population in western contry and to the overwhelming majority in social media, a billion Muslims vs 10 million Jews. Every claim by the Muslims is multiplied and reverberating by the echo chamber. So the media just follows to cater for them, it is a bit of decision besuiness and a bit of a political belief peppered with classic racism against Jews. If google had an option they would have been on the Muslims side with no hesitation, it is just the current laws that prevented them.

mcguire 5y ago

Israeli lives are worth at least $400 / year each to the United States, given the $3.3B annual aid and a population of 9M. Since 2007, when the US stopped economic aid, it's been entirely military aid. (https://explorer.usaid.gov/cd/ISR https://explorer.usaid.gov/cd/ISR) In total, Afghanistan gets more, $4.9B, but that only comes to $129 per Afghan. (That's the "you break it, you bought it" plan, I guess.) The next highest is Jordan, $1.7B or $170 per each. (Yeah, we're paying for both sides of this dust-up.) So I think we can agree that Jewish lives are worth quite a lot. Just wish they could get along with their neighbors.

sequoia 5y ago
Just to clarify: these are the neighbours that expelled all their Jews leaving them refugees in Israel and also tried to destroy the country and many of which have not stopped trying for its entire history. Getting along takes two.
- tomcooks 5y ago
  Lol right, the rapist and the raped need to find a compromise
- sofixa 5y ago
  > Just to clarify: these are the neighbours that expelled all their Jews leaving them refugees in Israel and also tried to destroy the country and many of which have not stopped trying for its entire history. Getting along takes two Sure, if you decide to start there. If you start a little further away, around WWI and before WWII, you have Jews settling lands where they were a small minority en masse, and after WWII mass migration there ( for very good reasons), and active Jewish and Arab boycotts for a UN proposed and unfair towards the Arabs partition of the land ( like murdering the UN negotiator by Jews). Israel doesn't help its case for peaceful coexistence, if there is even such a case, by illegally occupying, ethnic cleansing and resettling Palestinian lands. If Israel wanted peace, it is the main party that can actually do something about it, but they do the opposite, up to and including that Israel is a country for Jews in their constitution, while refusing to acknowledge Palestine is a thing. Where should the Palestinians go?
  - gataca 5y ago
    What does Jews buying swamps in pre-state Israel have to do with Iraqi or Egyptian Jews, for example, who were ethnically cleansed? I'm not seeing the connection
    - sofixa 5y ago
      The connection is that once Zionism was an actual threat and Jews were trying to get the whole of Palestine, and massacres started on both sides, Muslims around the world took the side of their "brothers" in the "war".

deanCommie 5y ago

But more Palestenian lives are being lost. Purely from a numbers perspective if you put aside all other variables or blame, wouldn't that explain why one side is being criticized extra right now?

LeoNatan25 5y ago
How about criticizing Hamas, a terrorist organization, for shooting rockets at civilian populations of a country with one of the most advanced armies of the world? How about criticizing Hamas for shooting these rockets from civilian centers? Seems like the media is willfully ignorant here. Then you have nonsense like: https://www.vox.com/2014/7/17/5912189/yes-gaza-militants-hide-rockets-in-schools-but-israel-doesnt-have-to https://www.vox.com/2014/7/17/5912189/yes-gaza-militants-hid... Clearly this smells foul.
- sofixa 5y ago
  > How about criticizing Hamas for shooting these rockets from civilian centers? How about criticizing Israel, a country with one of the most advanced militaries in the world, for bombing civilians that can't defend themselves, in retaliation for very basic level attacks by a terrorist group Israel is perfectly capable of defending itself from? Hamas are the bad guys, Israel are even worse because they could show restraint and not murder civilians, not evict Arabs and resettle their lands with Jews and all the other war crimey shit they do, yet they still do that, under a very corrupt leader that mostly stays in power with nationalistic and proto-fascistic rhetoric.
- roelschroeven 5y ago
  How about criticizing both Hamas and Israel for shooting rockets at civilians? Blame can go both ways. On top of that, many people, me included, criticize Israel for illegally occupying Palestinian territory, stealing houses from Arab Israels, and generally treating Palestinians as second-rate citizens and worse. There's simply no excuse for that. Imagine yourself in a situation like that. Whatever you do, whoever you complain to, the situation only gets worse. You're helpless against enormous injustice. While I don't condone violence, I do understand why people resort to violence when everything else fails.

kennywinker 5y ago

I'm sorry to hear you're living through violence. That sounds horrible, and I hope you and your family are safe. I see you conflating criticism of the actions of the Israeli government with opposition to Jewish lives. They are not the same. I oppose the Israeli government's policies and actions towards Palestine, but that does not mean I wish harm on you or your family, nor does it mean I don't see and value the Israeli lives lost during this conflict. There ARE other explanations for it.

golergka 5y ago
> I see you conflating criticism of the actions of the Israeli government with opposition to Jewish lives. No. I'm saying that putting israeli government under a completely different set of standards than any other country in the world cannot be explained with anything else rather than pure anti-semitism.
- M277 5y ago
  What different standards do you mean?
  - golergka 5y ago
    I've never, in any other conflict, witnessed a public opinion on the side of the aggressor. I've never, in any other conflict, seen an army that's not fighting overseas, but is desperately trying to prevent massive loss of life in it's own population, accused of "disproportionate" response — even though it would take measures to prevent any casualties that are completely unprecedented in world practices and makes achieving it's goals (see above) significantly harder. I've never in my life seen calls for genocide of entire nation (that's exactly what "from the river to the sea" means, if you're not aware) widely supported through out the world. Every time this conflict happens again, I can't help but realise that if it was not for IDF, my family would have long have been brutally killed, and all those first-world liberals who're so busy fighting for their causes wouldn't even mind.
    - 5y ago

gataca 5y ago

looks like you hit a nerve by correctly diagnosing the situation.