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Are Paris, Kathmandu, Seol, or Hoboken under blockade by a government that claims their land but makes the people on that land stateless, and also periodically

Are Paris, Kathmandu, Seol, or Hoboken under blockade by a government that claims their land but makes the people on that land stateless, and also periodically bombs their urban infrastructure? It's possible that the density of gaza is in some way relevant to the current events taking place there in a way that it might not be for the other places you've listed.

sequoia 5y ago
There are plenty of stories where this would be relevant. "Many refugees are landing in suburbs of Paris, one of the most densely populated..." "...rural Korean population is flocking to Seoul, one of the most..." Anyway it's clear that Gaza is a densely populated area. I still consider the highly selective use of the "one of the most" phrasing curious. For the record I think it's bad to drop bombs onto (or fire rockets into) civilian areas even if they are only sparsely populated, for what it's worth.
- stormbrew 5y ago
  > There are plenty of stories where this would be relevant. "Many refugees are landing in suburbs of Paris, one of the most densely populated..." "...rural Korean population is flocking to Seoul, one of the most..." I mean, is it? The suburbs of Paris and Seoul are relatively unbounded in size, if nothing else. Gaza has a hard line on how many sqmi it is in a way very few other jurisdictions do. The density of Gaza is particularly relevant because the situation makes that density a problem in ways it isn't really for Paris or Seoul, as they are not being bombed, blockaded, or subject to limitations on when they even have power or water.
deleted 5y ago
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flyinglizard 5y ago
That’s very disingenuous - there are zero territorial claims against Israel in Gaza Strip. Israel unilaterally withdrew from Gaza, dissolving all settlements in the area, back in 2005. The blockade is simply an ongoing state of war between Gaza and Israel. Gaza also borders with Egypt.
- stormbrew 5y ago
  Israel recognizes no government in Gaza (neither the Palestinian Authority, which has no power there, nor Hamas, which they recognize as terrorists not a government), claims control over entry and exit to the territory of goods and people, including by sea, and claims the right to enter the territory at any time to carry out military activity. Israel also does not recognize a Palestinian state in general to be at war with to begin with. There is some lip service to an eventual two state solution that gets less and less paid to every year, but as it stands there's no one to be at war with, as far as Israel is concerned. There's just a bunch of stateless people stuck in a postage-stamp-sized jurisdiction that they've left in a lawless state. "Disengagement" is not devolution is not autonomy. The idea that this is a war is a convenient PR fiction.
  - avip 5y ago
    Were you using the term "claims control over entry of goods into the territory" instead of "claims their land", there would be much less to argue about. "claims their land" sounds like Israel would like to annex Gaza and make it part of Israel - which is ridiculous and patently false.
    - stormbrew 5y ago
      Is it? Certainly, there are political factions within Israel that claim it should be part of Israel -- that's why there were settlements to remove in the first place. It would be ridiculous to deny that, honestly. Those factions seem to continue to grow in influence every year as well. The idea that Israel should be one state that covers the entirety of the former mandate of Palestine seems to actually be pretty popular in Israel right now. It may not be the official policy, but it is a very real possibility. Regardless, if a country exerts every measure of control over a territory it can including entry and exit from it along international borders, it's really hard imo to argue that it sees it as sovereign in any way. Israel clearly does not see Gaza as an independent state. So if it's not an independent state what exactly is it a part of if not Israel. Or, to put it a little bit more snarky: you can't neglect your way out of an occupation. Neglect is, in fact, a weapon in cases like this.

sequoia 5y ago

There are plenty of stories where this would be relevant. "Many refugees are landing in suburbs of Paris, one of the most densely populated..." "...rural Korean population is flocking to Seoul, one of the most..." Anyway it's clear that Gaza is a densely populated area. I still consider the highly selective use of the "one of the most" phrasing curious. For the record I think it's bad to drop bombs onto (or fire rockets into) civilian areas even if they are only sparsely populated, for what it's worth.

stormbrew 5y ago
> There are plenty of stories where this would be relevant. "Many refugees are landing in suburbs of Paris, one of the most densely populated..." "...rural Korean population is flocking to Seoul, one of the most..." I mean, is it? The suburbs of Paris and Seoul are relatively unbounded in size, if nothing else. Gaza has a hard line on how many sqmi it is in a way very few other jurisdictions do. The density of Gaza is particularly relevant because the situation makes that density a problem in ways it isn't really for Paris or Seoul, as they are not being bombed, blockaded, or subject to limitations on when they even have power or water.

deleted 5y ago

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flyinglizard 5y ago

That’s very disingenuous - there are zero territorial claims against Israel in Gaza Strip. Israel unilaterally withdrew from Gaza, dissolving all settlements in the area, back in 2005. The blockade is simply an ongoing state of war between Gaza and Israel. Gaza also borders with Egypt.

stormbrew 5y ago
Israel recognizes no government in Gaza (neither the Palestinian Authority, which has no power there, nor Hamas, which they recognize as terrorists not a government), claims control over entry and exit to the territory of goods and people, including by sea, and claims the right to enter the territory at any time to carry out military activity. Israel also does not recognize a Palestinian state in general to be at war with to begin with. There is some lip service to an eventual two state solution that gets less and less paid to every year, but as it stands there's no one to be at war with, as far as Israel is concerned. There's just a bunch of stateless people stuck in a postage-stamp-sized jurisdiction that they've left in a lawless state. "Disengagement" is not devolution is not autonomy. The idea that this is a war is a convenient PR fiction.
- avip 5y ago
  Were you using the term "claims control over entry of goods into the territory" instead of "claims their land", there would be much less to argue about. "claims their land" sounds like Israel would like to annex Gaza and make it part of Israel - which is ridiculous and patently false.
  - stormbrew 5y ago
    Is it? Certainly, there are political factions within Israel that claim it should be part of Israel -- that's why there were settlements to remove in the first place. It would be ridiculous to deny that, honestly. Those factions seem to continue to grow in influence every year as well. The idea that Israel should be one state that covers the entirety of the former mandate of Palestine seems to actually be pretty popular in Israel right now. It may not be the official policy, but it is a very real possibility. Regardless, if a country exerts every measure of control over a territory it can including entry and exit from it along international borders, it's really hard imo to argue that it sees it as sovereign in any way. Israel clearly does not see Gaza as an independent state. So if it's not an independent state what exactly is it a part of if not Israel. Or, to put it a little bit more snarky: you can't neglect your way out of an occupation. Neglect is, in fact, a weapon in cases like this.