4 ms·

Is it? Since the beginning the science has been in conflict with politics (or the Church, or the Kings/Emperors before democracy). Notable political/social oppo

Is it? Since the beginning the science has been in conflict with politics (or the Church, or the Kings/Emperors before democracy). Notable political/social opposition to the sciences are well documented. Couple of examples: doctors washing their hands was a controversial issue [2] and how being able to eat "higher-class" food killed thousands of Japanese, who rejected eating other food even when it was known it was killing them [3]. [1] https://www.americamagazine.org/arts-culture/2020/09/18/what-story-galileo-gets-wrong-about-church-and-science https://www.americamagazine.org/arts-culture/2020/09/18/what... [2] https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/article/handwashing-once-controversial-medical-advice https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/article/handwashi... [3] https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/rice-disease-mystery-edo-tokyo-navy-beriberi https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/rice-disease-mystery-e...

throwaway316943 5y ago
I think neither is exactly true. Like any endeavour that requires patronage, scientists have to sing for their supper. The combinations of scientists and patrons vary across time and space with some being more amenable to pure science and others breeding corruption. Like everything it is much more complex upon closer inspection.
- franciscop 5y ago
  The cases I've shared were not about patronage (maybe Galileo, unsure), but about third parties categorically denying the science it based on their social/political thinking.
matt_kantor 5y ago
Don't forget about Galileo.
- jimmygrapes 5y ago
  Here is a well written article about the topic, which outlines some details that I am currently investigating for confirmation, and helps make Galileo's story a little more nuanced than the elementary school version: https://www.americamagazine.org/arts-culture/2020/09/18/what-story-galileo-gets-wrong-about-church-and-science https://www.americamagazine.org/arts-culture/2020/09/18/what...
- franciscop 5y ago
  I didn't forget about Galileo, it's literally my first link and it's the same link that @jimmygrapes shared later :)
  - matt_kantor 5y ago
    Sorry about that!
bamboozled 5y ago
Being in Japan, 3 was fascinating. I feel like Japans strong cultural belief in their own superiority and love of hierarchy make it especially susceptible to these type of issues. If you’re interested, here is a more recent example of “politics vs science” and politics losing badly: https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Coronavirus/Abe-declares-end-to-Japan-s-coronavirus-emergency https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Coronavirus/Abe-declares-e... Here’s a fun quote from the article: "We have managed to bring the outbreak under control within just one and a half months. This demonstrates the effectiveness of the Japan model," Meanwhile at the time of writing Japan is experiencing a surge in coronavirus cases and Abe has resigned.
- franciscop 5y ago
  I also happen to live in Japan, that's prob why I knew this example well and I'm well aware/critic of the covid situation and the Olympics being pushed forward. Abe resignation seems to be based on being sick though, there was some, well extreme people measuring how long it took him to walk a fixed distance over time and when he started to slow down significatively, they predicted he was sick. He resigned few days later, officially because of an illness: https://www.wsj.com/articles/japans-abe-goes-to-hospital-for-reported-check-up-following-health-concerns-11597638119 https://www.wsj.com/articles/japans-abe-goes-to-hospital-for...
- trompetenaccoun 5y ago
  I highly doubt that AtlasObscura article, it sounds like a classical urban myth. In East Asia there are tens if not hundreds of millions of people who've eaten nothing but white rice as the staple in their diet their whole life, and it's not caused any issues as far as I'm aware. Of course if you eat just rice and nothing else, that might be unhealthy. But that's not an issue with white rice.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]

throwaway316943 5y ago

I think neither is exactly true. Like any endeavour that requires patronage, scientists have to sing for their supper. The combinations of scientists and patrons vary across time and space with some being more amenable to pure science and others breeding corruption. Like everything it is much more complex upon closer inspection.

franciscop 5y ago
The cases I've shared were not about patronage (maybe Galileo, unsure), but about third parties categorically denying the science it based on their social/political thinking.

matt_kantor 5y ago

Don't forget about Galileo.

jimmygrapes 5y ago
Here is a well written article about the topic, which outlines some details that I am currently investigating for confirmation, and helps make Galileo's story a little more nuanced than the elementary school version: https://www.americamagazine.org/arts-culture/2020/09/18/what-story-galileo-gets-wrong-about-church-and-science https://www.americamagazine.org/arts-culture/2020/09/18/what...
franciscop 5y ago
I didn't forget about Galileo, it's literally my first link and it's the same link that @jimmygrapes shared later :)
- matt_kantor 5y ago
  Sorry about that!

bamboozled 5y ago

Being in Japan, 3 was fascinating. I feel like Japans strong cultural belief in their own superiority and love of hierarchy make it especially susceptible to these type of issues. If you’re interested, here is a more recent example of “politics vs science” and politics losing badly: https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Coronavirus/Abe-declares-end-to-Japan-s-coronavirus-emergency https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Coronavirus/Abe-declares-e... Here’s a fun quote from the article: "We have managed to bring the outbreak under control within just one and a half months. This demonstrates the effectiveness of the Japan model," Meanwhile at the time of writing Japan is experiencing a surge in coronavirus cases and Abe has resigned.

franciscop 5y ago
I also happen to live in Japan, that's prob why I knew this example well and I'm well aware/critic of the covid situation and the Olympics being pushed forward. Abe resignation seems to be based on being sick though, there was some, well extreme people measuring how long it took him to walk a fixed distance over time and when he started to slow down significatively, they predicted he was sick. He resigned few days later, officially because of an illness: https://www.wsj.com/articles/japans-abe-goes-to-hospital-for-reported-check-up-following-health-concerns-11597638119 https://www.wsj.com/articles/japans-abe-goes-to-hospital-for...
trompetenaccoun 5y ago
I highly doubt that AtlasObscura article, it sounds like a classical urban myth. In East Asia there are tens if not hundreds of millions of people who've eaten nothing but white rice as the staple in their diet their whole life, and it's not caused any issues as far as I'm aware. Of course if you eat just rice and nothing else, that might be unhealthy. But that's not an issue with white rice.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]