5 ms·
It’s not the lithium which is dangerous with li-ion batteries though. It’s the flammable liquid electrolyte. That’s what gives you explosions and fire. I think
by audunw 5y ago
It’s not the lithium which is dangerous with li-ion batteries though. It’s the flammable liquid electrolyte. That’s what gives you explosions and fire. I think the lithium does make it harder to put out after it has caught fire though, but it’s not generally the reason why they catch fire.
With next generation batteries, some have been shown to be completely fire proof, as they don’t all use the same flammable electrolyte as Li-ion. With some, you can cut them in two without anything happening.
I’m not at all worried about the lithium in lithium metal
batteries. The key is reaction rate. A pure chunk of lithium metal can be dangerous because all the metal is available for reacting to happen nearly instantly. A microsopically thin slice sandwich between non-reactive materials is not a big concern. With catastrophic damage you may have thermal run-away. But fire departments in countries with high share of EVs, like Norway, have already shown they can handle it well, and they consider EVs far safer than gasoline cars.
- samatman 5y agoSure, a lot depends on the exact formulation of the batteries. It still makes me nervous. Most of what you said was about lithium ion batteries, which is irrelevant here. I gather that you know that, and I do as well, but I thought it was worth spelling out for the general reader.
- tigen 5y agoIt's not irrelevant at all, you mentioned them yourself, and he spent more time discussing lithium metal. What's irrelevant is your nervousness.
- coryrc 5y agoDoesn't LiFePO4 have substantially the same electrolyte yet is self-extinguishing?
- scythe 5y agoIt's worth noting that the solid electrolyte in these batteries is based on phosphorus pentasulfide -- not particularly flammable, but prone to releasing clouds of extremely toxic hydrogen sulfide on contact with water. Exit one problem, enter another.
- maxerickson 5y agoHydrogen sulfide is dangerous in a contained area, the smoke from a smallish fire producing it would be something to be aware of, not a catastrophe.
- fnord77 5y agoa contained area, like ... the cabin of a car?
- maxerickson 5y agoThe giant fire would be the much bigger problem if you are still in the car. (The fire is smallish in a 'amount of material' sense and huge in a 'you don't want to be anything resembling close to it' sense)
- dreamcompiler 5y agoOne big whiff of concentrated hydrogen sulfide will kill you very dead very quickly. People tend to think they would smell it first, but if it's concentrated you'll be dead before the smell even registers.
- Robotbeat 5y agoExtremely unlikely.
- tuatoru 5y agoNot at all. This is a known hazard when working on waste-water networks. There are a few deaths every decade, despite nearly everyone having gas detectors (and being told to use them before going into a manhole). At high enough concentrations, H2S just shuts down your smell receptors.
- Robotbeat 5y agoPeople who die in such situations don’t not smell the hydrogen sulfide. They just either have no way out quickly or they keep going in spite of the danger. I’ve been in such situations.