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I don't really relate to the author's motivation. Who is "the kind of person who carries a notebook"? Surely it's someone who has something to write down, it's

I don't really relate to the author's motivation. Who is "the kind of person who carries a notebook"? Surely it's someone who has something to write down, it's an odd perspective wanting to force yourself to take notes. I took diligent paper notes for the first three years of my PhD. Lab notes, research ideas, mad science, meeting notes, presentation drafts, diagrams, graphs, specifications, diary entries, poems, songs, tirades, rants and drawings... In the end it was only marginally useful, mostly to recall what was said in meetings. It's too much data, hard to search and 99% of it ends up useless. Really their main use was to work through problems and ideas as I was writing them, as well as to look back at past me and frown at how stupid I was. Now I've switched to an e-ink solution (Remarkable) because I've got dozens of paper notebooks that I don't know what to do with and the waste of paper gave me a mental block over time that made me reticent to write down more stuff. I do agree with him that notebooks should be append only, anything else is a lost battle which will force you to censor yourself to keep things clean. Unless you use binders, then you have a better control of the paper stack.

gumby 5y ago
> Who is "the kind of person who carries a notebook"? I took it to mean “I decided to keep track of my random thoughts and things not to forget rather than be one of those people with scraps of paper and who loses track of things.” In that read, “notebook” is synecdoche
coldtea 5y ago
>Who is "the kind of person who carries a notebook"? Statistically either a hipster pretending to be deep, or a "get things done" cult member.
- shakezula 5y ago
  This sounds like a needlessly harsh take and on something as benign as "having pen and paper regularly".
  - zikzak 5y ago
    Exactly. What about the forgetful but responsible people?
    - coldtea 5y ago
      What about my first word "statistically"? :-)
- batch12 5y ago
  As someone who struggles with impulsive speaking in meetings, I use notes as a buffer between my brain and mouth. I jot my thoughts down when others are talking. Instead of wanting to interrupt them to speak, this gives me time to consider what I should say-- and if it is actually important enough to say without having to worry that I will forget things. It also gives others a chance to talk and perhaps express what I was thinking anyway.
  - leetrout 5y ago
    This is a great strategy!
  - EvilEy3 5y ago
    Really nice tip. I also struggle with this. Will try to use it.
- kstrauser 5y ago
  I’m a GTD cultist and I throw everything into Drafts on my iPhone. I’ve tried keeping a paper notebook with me but it just doesn’t suit my way of doing things. In other words, they’re not related.
  - coldtea 5y ago
    >In other words, they’re not related. They're not tied in an absolute "if and only if" relationship (that is, there are exceptions), but they are absolutely related, hence the "statistically".
    - vertis 5y ago
      If you're going to use the term statistically you should probably back it up with a source citation.
pwdisswordfish8 5y ago
> the waste of paper gave me a mental block Serious question—not a pointed remark disguised as a question—but what's the impact of that waste paper vs the what goes into a latest gen reMarkable? Where's the inflection point where a device like that figuratively "pays for itself" (in terms of reduced environmental harms) over pen and paper? Even if those numbers are good, I assume that the human rights abuses associated with paper production are minimal in comparison to the the kinds of things happening to support the manufacture of modern consumer electronics. Am I wrong?
- PurpleFoxy 5y ago
  I imagine the stats come out better when using something like an iPad for notes which replaces other electronics you would have bought.
  - pwdisswordfish8 5y ago
    Good point. More on this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23018923 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23018923 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21020682 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21020682 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20320001 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20320001
- spiderice 5y ago
  Found an interesting article on the topic: https://slate.com/technology/2011/09/paper-versus-the-ipad-is-taking-notes-on-a-tablet-computer-or-a-notepad-more-environmentally-responsible.html https://slate.com/technology/2011/09/paper-versus-the-ipad-i... According to the article, if you already have an iPad, it’s better to take notes on that than to use paper, by a lot. 7 hours of iPad note taking equals 1 piece of paper (in carbon dioxide equivalents). However if you’re buying the iPad just for the purpose of taking notes, it is probably better to just use paper. Unless you’re going to use more than roughly 8,000 a 13,000 pieces of paper (depending on the type). So as far as the remarkable goes, my guess would be that paper wins unless you take an insane amount of notes. There are obviously other factors to consider when deciding between remarkable and paper. I just found these numbers interesting and have absolutely no problem with people who take notes digitally. I have way too many computers/tablets/phones/who knows how many other electronics to be judgmental of this sort of thing.
epilys 5y ago
During lockdown I got a cheap Huion drawing tablet for my desktop Linux and it has been great for figuring programming or mathematics problems out "on paper" but with non of the cons of running out of paper. I use the xournal++ app.
- wnscooke 5y ago
  I had never heard of this, so I googled it. Very interesting. The drawing aspect is heavily pushed, but it looked like it also runs Windows 10 Pro... can you comment on how it runs as a computer? Could it be used to make videos, with say, DaVinci Reolve, or Openshot? Does O365 work on it, and web browsing, etc.? Thank you.
  - notenoughhorses 5y ago
    I have a Wacom which I believe is similar usage to Huion mentioned by OP. I have made videos by simply opening up gimp, setting up appropriate screen and background, and then using Camtasia to screen record my writing. Biggest issue for me is that I like to use multiple monitors. Between two monitors and laptop screen, there are three monitors. The tablet acts like a mouse that extends across all three screens, so the aspect ratio gets messed up (the middle third of the tracker affects the middle screen, so tiny movements side to side there are quite large on the monitor). There is probably a better fix, but I end up disconnecting my laptop and going to separate workspace when I want to record. Not a big deal, but annoying That I can’t just plug and go if I want to use drawing tablet randomly in a project.
dredmorbius 5y ago
Paper is an always-there, always-on, never-obsoleted, never uncharged, high-light/low-light, durable, unbreakable device with inegrated modular sharding and really, really, really shitty search features (though creative indexing can get around this somewhat). (Some of the newer e-ink devices ... are starting to address a few of paper's strengths, particularly use under brightly-lit environments, increased durability, and whilst not never needing charging, both going long stretches on a charge and reviving quickly.) There remain risks. Few paper-based notekeeping systems suffer from integrated keyloggers, data exfiltration, or ransomeware attacks. What makes paper far more useful, I'm discovering several years in to a still-only-semi-organised Bullet Journal practice, is indexing. Find a way to highlight where relevant data are kept, and note things there. The Bullet Journal itself strongly leverages, but is not limited to, time-based organisation. My strategy generally is to begin temporal content at the front of the journal, conceptual or topical content at the back, working toward the middle. (Exceptions to both rules can of course exist.) The index, which begins at the front (and can be extended to any arbitrary location within the journal, though I've found 1--2 pages more than sufficient, having allocated 4 initially) points to either specific items or waypoints (e.g., monthly spreads, possibly weekly if you want to go that way). There seem to be two primary schools of BuJo use. One is principally concerned with aesthetic. I'm concerned with utility. My journals are brutally practical, and anything but works of art. They're useful, however. (And I hope to make them more so with time.) Having recently acquired a larger e-ink device (Onyx BOOX), I am finding its notetaking capabilities ... surprisingly attractive. (I'd bought it strictly as an e-book / e-article reader, it does very well at that also, of course.) It's become an idea-development space. But isn't seriously challenging paper yet in other realms.

gumby 5y ago

> Who is "the kind of person who carries a notebook"? I took it to mean “I decided to keep track of my random thoughts and things not to forget rather than be one of those people with scraps of paper and who loses track of things.” In that read, “notebook” is synecdoche

coldtea 5y ago

>Who is "the kind of person who carries a notebook"? Statistically either a hipster pretending to be deep, or a "get things done" cult member.

shakezula 5y ago
This sounds like a needlessly harsh take and on something as benign as "having pen and paper regularly".
- zikzak 5y ago
  Exactly. What about the forgetful but responsible people?
  - coldtea 5y ago
    What about my first word "statistically"? :-)
batch12 5y ago
As someone who struggles with impulsive speaking in meetings, I use notes as a buffer between my brain and mouth. I jot my thoughts down when others are talking. Instead of wanting to interrupt them to speak, this gives me time to consider what I should say-- and if it is actually important enough to say without having to worry that I will forget things. It also gives others a chance to talk and perhaps express what I was thinking anyway.
- leetrout 5y ago
  This is a great strategy!
- EvilEy3 5y ago
  Really nice tip. I also struggle with this. Will try to use it.
kstrauser 5y ago
I’m a GTD cultist and I throw everything into Drafts on my iPhone. I’ve tried keeping a paper notebook with me but it just doesn’t suit my way of doing things. In other words, they’re not related.
- coldtea 5y ago
  >In other words, they’re not related. They're not tied in an absolute "if and only if" relationship (that is, there are exceptions), but they are absolutely related, hence the "statistically".
  - vertis 5y ago
    If you're going to use the term statistically you should probably back it up with a source citation.

pwdisswordfish8 5y ago

> the waste of paper gave me a mental block Serious question—not a pointed remark disguised as a question—but what's the impact of that waste paper vs the what goes into a latest gen reMarkable? Where's the inflection point where a device like that figuratively "pays for itself" (in terms of reduced environmental harms) over pen and paper? Even if those numbers are good, I assume that the human rights abuses associated with paper production are minimal in comparison to the the kinds of things happening to support the manufacture of modern consumer electronics. Am I wrong?

PurpleFoxy 5y ago
I imagine the stats come out better when using something like an iPad for notes which replaces other electronics you would have bought.
- pwdisswordfish8 5y ago
  Good point. More on this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23018923 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23018923 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21020682 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21020682 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20320001 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20320001
spiderice 5y ago
Found an interesting article on the topic: https://slate.com/technology/2011/09/paper-versus-the-ipad-is-taking-notes-on-a-tablet-computer-or-a-notepad-more-environmentally-responsible.html https://slate.com/technology/2011/09/paper-versus-the-ipad-i... According to the article, if you already have an iPad, it’s better to take notes on that than to use paper, by a lot. 7 hours of iPad note taking equals 1 piece of paper (in carbon dioxide equivalents). However if you’re buying the iPad just for the purpose of taking notes, it is probably better to just use paper. Unless you’re going to use more than roughly 8,000 a 13,000 pieces of paper (depending on the type). So as far as the remarkable goes, my guess would be that paper wins unless you take an insane amount of notes. There are obviously other factors to consider when deciding between remarkable and paper. I just found these numbers interesting and have absolutely no problem with people who take notes digitally. I have way too many computers/tablets/phones/who knows how many other electronics to be judgmental of this sort of thing.

epilys 5y ago

During lockdown I got a cheap Huion drawing tablet for my desktop Linux and it has been great for figuring programming or mathematics problems out "on paper" but with non of the cons of running out of paper. I use the xournal++ app.

wnscooke 5y ago
I had never heard of this, so I googled it. Very interesting. The drawing aspect is heavily pushed, but it looked like it also runs Windows 10 Pro... can you comment on how it runs as a computer? Could it be used to make videos, with say, DaVinci Reolve, or Openshot? Does O365 work on it, and web browsing, etc.? Thank you.
- notenoughhorses 5y ago
  I have a Wacom which I believe is similar usage to Huion mentioned by OP. I have made videos by simply opening up gimp, setting up appropriate screen and background, and then using Camtasia to screen record my writing. Biggest issue for me is that I like to use multiple monitors. Between two monitors and laptop screen, there are three monitors. The tablet acts like a mouse that extends across all three screens, so the aspect ratio gets messed up (the middle third of the tracker affects the middle screen, so tiny movements side to side there are quite large on the monitor). There is probably a better fix, but I end up disconnecting my laptop and going to separate workspace when I want to record. Not a big deal, but annoying That I can’t just plug and go if I want to use drawing tablet randomly in a project.

dredmorbius 5y ago

Paper is an always-there, always-on, never-obsoleted, never uncharged, high-light/low-light, durable, unbreakable device with inegrated modular sharding and really, really, really shitty search features (though creative indexing can get around this somewhat). (Some of the newer e-ink devices ... are starting to address a few of paper's strengths, particularly use under brightly-lit environments, increased durability, and whilst not never needing charging, both going long stretches on a charge and reviving quickly.) There remain risks. Few paper-based notekeeping systems suffer from integrated keyloggers, data exfiltration, or ransomeware attacks. What makes paper far more useful, I'm discovering several years in to a still-only-semi-organised Bullet Journal practice, is indexing. Find a way to highlight where relevant data are kept, and note things there. The Bullet Journal itself strongly leverages, but is not limited to, time-based organisation. My strategy generally is to begin temporal content at the front of the journal, conceptual or topical content at the back, working toward the middle. (Exceptions to both rules can of course exist.) The index, which begins at the front (and can be extended to any arbitrary location within the journal, though I've found 1--2 pages more than sufficient, having allocated 4 initially) points to either specific items or waypoints (e.g., monthly spreads, possibly weekly if you want to go that way). There seem to be two primary schools of BuJo use. One is principally concerned with aesthetic. I'm concerned with utility. My journals are brutally practical, and anything but works of art. They're useful, however. (And I hope to make them more so with time.) Having recently acquired a larger e-ink device (Onyx BOOX), I am finding its notetaking capabilities ... surprisingly attractive. (I'd bought it strictly as an e-book / e-article reader, it does very well at that also, of course.) It's become an idea-development space. But isn't seriously challenging paper yet in other realms.