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>>I know the issue is politicized This is becoming more and more common, Pure Science is almost never practiced anymore. The Hard sciences like Immunology, v
by syshum 5y ago
>>I know the issue is politicized
This is becoming more and more common, Pure Science is almost never practiced anymore. The Hard sciences like Immunology, virology, general medicine used to be some what insulated from politics however in the last few years all sciences are no longer data driven.
You form a conclusion then find the facts that fit your narrative, and if your narrative is not the "correct" one you better not release your facts...
- franciscop 5y agoIs it? Since the beginning the science has been in conflict with politics (or the Church, or the Kings/Emperors before democracy). Notable political/social opposition to the sciences are well documented. Couple of examples: doctors washing their hands was a controversial issue [2] and how being able to eat "higher-class" food killed thousands of Japanese, who rejected eating other food even when it was known it was killing them [3]. [1] https://www.americamagazine.org/arts-culture/2020/09/18/what-story-galileo-gets-wrong-about-church-and-science https://www.americamagazine.org/arts-culture/2020/09/18/what... [2] https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/article/handwashing-once-controversial-medical-advice https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/article/handwashi... [3] https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/rice-disease-mystery-edo-tokyo-navy-beriberi https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/rice-disease-mystery-e...
- throwaway316943 5y agoI think neither is exactly true. Like any endeavour that requires patronage, scientists have to sing for their supper. The combinations of scientists and patrons vary across time and space with some being more amenable to pure science and others breeding corruption. Like everything it is much more complex upon closer inspection.
- franciscop 5y agoThe cases I've shared were not about patronage (maybe Galileo, unsure), but about third parties categorically denying the science it based on their social/political thinking.
- matt_kantor 5y agoDon't forget about Galileo.
- jimmygrapes 5y agoHere is a well written article about the topic, which outlines some details that I am currently investigating for confirmation, and helps make Galileo's story a little more nuanced than the elementary school version: https://www.americamagazine.org/arts-culture/2020/09/18/what-story-galileo-gets-wrong-about-church-and-science https://www.americamagazine.org/arts-culture/2020/09/18/what...
- franciscop 5y agoI didn't forget about Galileo, it's literally my first link and it's the same link that @jimmygrapes shared later :)
- matt_kantor 5y agoSorry about that!
- bamboozled 5y agoBeing in Japan, 3 was fascinating. I feel like Japans strong cultural belief in their own superiority and love of hierarchy make it especially susceptible to these type of issues. If you’re interested, here is a more recent example of “politics vs science” and politics losing badly: https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Coronavirus/Abe-declares-end-to-Japan-s-coronavirus-emergency https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Coronavirus/Abe-declares-e... Here’s a fun quote from the article: "We have managed to bring the outbreak under control within just one and a half months. This demonstrates the effectiveness of the Japan model," Meanwhile at the time of writing Japan is experiencing a surge in coronavirus cases and Abe has resigned.
- franciscop 5y agoI also happen to live in Japan, that's prob why I knew this example well and I'm well aware/critic of the covid situation and the Olympics being pushed forward. Abe resignation seems to be based on being sick though, there was some, well extreme people measuring how long it took him to walk a fixed distance over time and when he started to slow down significatively, they predicted he was sick. He resigned few days later, officially because of an illness: https://www.wsj.com/articles/japans-abe-goes-to-hospital-for-reported-check-up-following-health-concerns-11597638119 https://www.wsj.com/articles/japans-abe-goes-to-hospital-for...
- trompetenaccoun 5y agoI highly doubt that AtlasObscura article, it sounds like a classical urban myth. In East Asia there are tens if not hundreds of millions of people who've eaten nothing but white rice as the staple in their diet their whole life, and it's not caused any issues as far as I'm aware. Of course if you eat just rice and nothing else, that might be unhealthy. But that's not an issue with white rice.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- kingsuper20 5y agoIt might simply be a kind of survivor bias. The sorts of science that the public finds most interesting are those with a human backstory and politics is the best kind of story.
- lordlimecat 5y agoIf you want to see this in full force, go try to find out from medical organizations whether there are irreversible health effects for gender transition therapies in adolescents. APA (and WHO, and...) will say no. But you'll see curious notes about recommendations to monitor bone density, and curious usages of auxiliary drugs whose purpose is to combat osteoporosis. Turns out, the therapies are well known to permanently and negatively affect bone density and long term effects-- while assumed to include osteoporosis and more frequent fractures-- are simply unknown. But the science and statistics cannot be allowed to trump the politics, so you will see no mention of this in complete contravention of traditional Hippocratic responsibilities and medical ethics.