4 ms·

The question is whether the type of research that might have lead to this result should be shut down to prevent similar accidents in the future. If COVID-19 wa

by btilly 5y ago

The question is whether the type of research that might have lead to this result should be shut down to prevent similar accidents in the future. If COVID-19 was, in fact, a lab release then that's a strong argument for shutting the research down.

bko 5y ago
And maybe liability on the offending party?
- CamouflagedKiwi 5y ago
  There's no possibility to get that kind of money paid back if a party was found responsible. At this point it must be trillions.
  - noofen 5y ago
    Liable in the hundreds of billions? Too big to fail. Liable in the trillions? Too big to speak about.
- JohnWhigham 5y ago
  I agree. We should start looking at Anthony Fauci himself, who most likely pushed for this type of research via his influence at the NIAID/NIH [0]. [0] https://thebulletin.org/2021/05/the-origin-of-covid-did-people-or-nature-open-pandoras-box-at-wuhan/ https://thebulletin.org/2021/05/the-origin-of-covid-did-peop...
  - JadeNB 5y ago
    > We should start looking at Anthony Fauci himself, who most likely pushed for this type of research via his influence at the NIAID/NIH [0]. This seems like a reach. There's a big difference in liability between "mismanaged deadly pathogens, caused a pandemic" and "said that someone should study deadly pathogens".
    - fffawe 5y ago
      It isn't a reach - it was funded by the NIAID/NIH: https://www.usaspending.gov/award/ASST_NON_R01AI110964_7529 https://www.usaspending.gov/award/ASST_NON_R01AI110964_7529
    - Izkata 5y ago
      > and "said that someone should study deadly pathogens". In 2014 when the US stopped gain-of-function research for being too risky, Fauci started funding it in Wuhan through EcoHealth. That's a lot more than just "said someone should study deadly pathogens".
bryanlarsen 5y ago
Even if it was a lab release, it's still a natural virus and could have happened without the lab release. Without previous studies of related viruses, it would have taken multiple years to produce a vaccine.
- dataflow 5y ago
  > Even if it was a lab release, it's still a natural virus and could have happened without the lab release. This is disputed.
- saas_sam 5y ago
  >Even if it was a lab release, it's still a natural virus and could have happened without the lab release. That is not the assertion being made by the scientists pushing for the investigation. The assertion is that this is a chimeric virus that very much does NOT show up in nature and its lab-made qualities are precisely why it became a global pandemic. Or would you take it as pure coincidence that the first truly global pandemic in however many decades you'd like just happened to be lab made?
  - mirekrusin 5y ago
    It still doesn't change anything, this type of research is getting too easy/too cheap to say that policy can save us from it. Somewhere someone will be doing it knowing the goal is to invoke genocide like final solution.
  - feanaro 5y ago
    Was the Spanish flu also manufactured? Clearly there is such a thing as natural pandemics.
    - saas_sam 5y ago
      OP: "This virus was natural therefore any investigations into its artificiality are moot." Me: "This virus has unique qualities that made it especially contagious, so its artificiality is not moot." You: "Other viruses in the past were also bad." Me, now: Yes, other viruses in the past were also bad. If you meant that to relate to the previous comments I think you left out the important bits. It's like if we were discussing whether we should investigate if someone caused a deadly landslide. Why would you argue that we shouldn't look into it simply because landslides also happen naturally? If there are empty crates of TNT on the top of the hill, shouldn't we look into it?
mirekrusin 5y ago
Adorable and naive, it's becoming too easy to do it, regardless of policies there will be somebody somewhere working on it as a weapon. [0] gives a good perspective. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKQDSgBHPfY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKQDSgBHPfY
- dang 5y ago
  Please don't post snarky putdowns to HN, especially not on flamewar topics. Your comment would be fine without that opening swipe. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

by btilly 5y ago

bko 5y ago

And maybe liability on the offending party?

CamouflagedKiwi 5y ago
There's no possibility to get that kind of money paid back if a party was found responsible. At this point it must be trillions.
- noofen 5y ago
  Liable in the hundreds of billions? Too big to fail. Liable in the trillions? Too big to speak about.
JohnWhigham 5y ago
I agree. We should start looking at Anthony Fauci himself, who most likely pushed for this type of research via his influence at the NIAID/NIH [0]. [0] https://thebulletin.org/2021/05/the-origin-of-covid-did-people-or-nature-open-pandoras-box-at-wuhan/ https://thebulletin.org/2021/05/the-origin-of-covid-did-peop...
- JadeNB 5y ago
  > We should start looking at Anthony Fauci himself, who most likely pushed for this type of research via his influence at the NIAID/NIH [0]. This seems like a reach. There's a big difference in liability between "mismanaged deadly pathogens, caused a pandemic" and "said that someone should study deadly pathogens".
  - fffawe 5y ago
    It isn't a reach - it was funded by the NIAID/NIH: https://www.usaspending.gov/award/ASST_NON_R01AI110964_7529 https://www.usaspending.gov/award/ASST_NON_R01AI110964_7529
  - Izkata 5y ago
    > and "said that someone should study deadly pathogens". In 2014 when the US stopped gain-of-function research for being too risky, Fauci started funding it in Wuhan through EcoHealth. That's a lot more than just "said someone should study deadly pathogens".

bryanlarsen 5y ago

Even if it was a lab release, it's still a natural virus and could have happened without the lab release. Without previous studies of related viruses, it would have taken multiple years to produce a vaccine.

dataflow 5y ago
> Even if it was a lab release, it's still a natural virus and could have happened without the lab release. This is disputed.
saas_sam 5y ago
>Even if it was a lab release, it's still a natural virus and could have happened without the lab release. That is not the assertion being made by the scientists pushing for the investigation. The assertion is that this is a chimeric virus that very much does NOT show up in nature and its lab-made qualities are precisely why it became a global pandemic. Or would you take it as pure coincidence that the first truly global pandemic in however many decades you'd like just happened to be lab made?
- mirekrusin 5y ago
  It still doesn't change anything, this type of research is getting too easy/too cheap to say that policy can save us from it. Somewhere someone will be doing it knowing the goal is to invoke genocide like final solution.
- feanaro 5y ago
  Was the Spanish flu also manufactured? Clearly there is such a thing as natural pandemics.
  - saas_sam 5y ago
    OP: "This virus was natural therefore any investigations into its artificiality are moot." Me: "This virus has unique qualities that made it especially contagious, so its artificiality is not moot." You: "Other viruses in the past were also bad." Me, now: Yes, other viruses in the past were also bad. If you meant that to relate to the previous comments I think you left out the important bits. It's like if we were discussing whether we should investigate if someone caused a deadly landslide. Why would you argue that we shouldn't look into it simply because landslides also happen naturally? If there are empty crates of TNT on the top of the hill, shouldn't we look into it?

mirekrusin 5y ago

Adorable and naive, it's becoming too easy to do it, regardless of policies there will be somebody somewhere working on it as a weapon. [0] gives a good perspective. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKQDSgBHPfY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKQDSgBHPfY

dang 5y ago
Please don't post snarky putdowns to HN, especially not on flamewar topics. Your comment would be fine without that opening swipe. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html