3 ms·

I agree with you, but that’s a subtly different claim than that we used to have a community process (or ritual, but that’s adding some baggage) for forgiveness/

I agree with you, but that’s a subtly different claim than that we used to have a community process (or ritual, but that’s adding some baggage) for forgiveness/reintegration that has since been lost. Not having the technology that creates a social record is different than actively forgiving and forgetting.

bryanrasmussen 5y ago
well the community process thing is sort of a more complicated thing - some argue that the old process of putting people in the stocks / public humiliation was a more humane way of treating people because they then paid their debt and could be reintegrated. Not saying I agree but the argument at any rate is there was a community process. I am at any rate open to the possibility that this was a good aspect of a system that in many other ways was bad. If so that community process was destroyed and replaced with a system that would never forgive you for your transgressions. However the system was imperfect and thus people could move, reinvent themselves and reintegrate themselves by exploiting the imperfections. Technology is now working to remove this capability. So it was not that the community process was removed by the arrival of technology, it was removed and later the technology arrived to strengthen what had been put in its place - creating a system in which transgressions and punishments are eternal.
- SAI_Peregrinus 5y ago
  Yep. Even before technology made checking easy it was common for employers to ask about criminal convictions. Felons have had difficulty getting jobs since long before the Internet came around. In theory they'd paid their debt to society, but in practice society kept punishing them indefinitely. The internet (and background check databases, etc) just makes this cheaper for employers to do, but didn't cause the problem.

3 ms·

I agree with you, but that’s a subtly different claim than that we used to have a community process (or ritual, but that’s adding some baggage) for forgiveness/

by smogcutter 5y ago

bryanrasmussen 5y ago
well the community process thing is sort of a more complicated thing - some argue that the old process of putting people in the stocks / public humiliation was a more humane way of treating people because they then paid their debt and could be reintegrated. Not saying I agree but the argument at any rate is there was a community process. I am at any rate open to the possibility that this was a good aspect of a system that in many other ways was bad. If so that community process was destroyed and replaced with a system that would never forgive you for your transgressions. However the system was imperfect and thus people could move, reinvent themselves and reintegrate themselves by exploiting the imperfections. Technology is now working to remove this capability. So it was not that the community process was removed by the arrival of technology, it was removed and later the technology arrived to strengthen what had been put in its place - creating a system in which transgressions and punishments are eternal.
- SAI_Peregrinus 5y ago
  Yep. Even before technology made checking easy it was common for employers to ask about criminal convictions. Felons have had difficulty getting jobs since long before the Internet came around. In theory they'd paid their debt to society, but in practice society kept punishing them indefinitely. The internet (and background check databases, etc) just makes this cheaper for employers to do, but didn't cause the problem.