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Israel has one major international airport, Ben Gurion. It serves ~12 million passengers a year. That's two months of traffic for Hartsfield-Jackson. The Isra

Israel has one major international airport, Ben Gurion. It serves ~12 million passengers a year. That's two months of traffic for Hartsfield-Jackson. The Israeli security model will not scale.

chopsueyar 15y ago
Israel's population is less than 7.5 million people.
- owenmarshall 15y ago
  People don't fly into Israel now? :)
  - chopsueyar 15y ago
    No. Only planes and missles.
swombat 15y ago
Your argument: Your site serves 20'000 users a month. There are more than a billion potential internet users in the world. Your site will not scale. Everything scales if you put the effort into it. Ok, maybe some things don't, but saying "The Israeli security model will not scale" just because it hasn't scaled, without providing further arguments, is a bit like saying "Rails doesn't scale" without providing further arguments. Sure, Rails does things differently from how PHP does the same things, and that means the performance trade-offs are different, but that doesn't mean it can't be engineered to scale. And if it makes the passengers/developers happier, it may be worth looking into, not dismissing without argument.
- owenmarshall 15y ago
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Gurion_International_Airport#Security_procedures http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Gurion_International_Airpor... I'm saying that requiring a face to face interaction with every person about to board an airplane in an American airport would be unreasonably expensive and introduce massive delays. I won't deny that it works well in a country with a very high risk of terrorist incidents and a low amount of air traffic. The US, however, flies 633 million people per year, and is at a much lower risk for terrorist attack. You've got to pick the right solution for the right problem. Israeli security isn't it.
  - sorbus 15y ago
    Devil's Advocate: There already is a face to face interaction, though; right before you get into the checkpoint, when they check your ID and ticket. Adding an extra 30 seconds on to have a bit more interaction wouldn't slow things down much - in a crowded airport, it often takes more than 30 seconds to get past there anyways, and in an empty airport where things are already going quickly an extra 30 seconds won't matter much.
    - owenmarshall 15y ago
      You could be correct. At the end of the day, we may be able to make the Israeli model work. But the question most people don't seem to ask or answer: should we? IMO, there have been exactly two positive security advances post-9/11: you can't barge into the cockpit anymore, and everyone in the air knows to resist attempts to hijack the plane. Adding more air marshals, creating the draconian TSA, forbidding liquids on flights -- it's not worth the time or money.

Israel has one major international airport, Ben Gurion. It serves ~12 million passengers a year. That's two months of traffic for Hartsfield-Jackson. The Israeli security model will not scale.

chopsueyar 15y ago

Israel's population is less than 7.5 million people.

owenmarshall 15y ago
People don't fly into Israel now? :)
- chopsueyar 15y ago
  No. Only planes and missles.

swombat 15y ago

Your argument: Your site serves 20'000 users a month. There are more than a billion potential internet users in the world. Your site will not scale. Everything scales if you put the effort into it. Ok, maybe some things don't, but saying "The Israeli security model will not scale" just because it hasn't scaled, without providing further arguments, is a bit like saying "Rails doesn't scale" without providing further arguments. Sure, Rails does things differently from how PHP does the same things, and that means the performance trade-offs are different, but that doesn't mean it can't be engineered to scale. And if it makes the passengers/developers happier, it may be worth looking into, not dismissing without argument.

owenmarshall 15y ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Gurion_International_Airport#Security_procedures http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Gurion_International_Airpor... I'm saying that requiring a face to face interaction with every person about to board an airplane in an American airport would be unreasonably expensive and introduce massive delays. I won't deny that it works well in a country with a very high risk of terrorist incidents and a low amount of air traffic. The US, however, flies 633 million people per year, and is at a much lower risk for terrorist attack. You've got to pick the right solution for the right problem. Israeli security isn't it.
- sorbus 15y ago
  Devil's Advocate: There already is a face to face interaction, though; right before you get into the checkpoint, when they check your ID and ticket. Adding an extra 30 seconds on to have a bit more interaction wouldn't slow things down much - in a crowded airport, it often takes more than 30 seconds to get past there anyways, and in an empty airport where things are already going quickly an extra 30 seconds won't matter much.
  - owenmarshall 15y ago
    You could be correct. At the end of the day, we may be able to make the Israeli model work. But the question most people don't seem to ask or answer: should we? IMO, there have been exactly two positive security advances post-9/11: you can't barge into the cockpit anymore, and everyone in the air knows to resist attempts to hijack the plane. Adding more air marshals, creating the draconian TSA, forbidding liquids on flights -- it's not worth the time or money.