5 ms·

Is there any real reason why we assume were dealing with an physical phenomena induced by an external source(rf/radiation) and not some new variant of post trau

Is there any real reason why we assume were dealing with an physical phenomena induced by an external source(rf/radiation) and not some new variant of post traumatic stress, we are after all dealing with people living/working long hours inside an highly paranoid and potentially very dysfunctional organization. If there exist an blood test as the article claim it's should point to an chemical source rather then an electromagnetic source of the illness, and if that's the case we are almost certainly looking at American procurement incompetence rather then something nefarious by external actors. So far there is not a lot of evidence pointing at any kind of illness ray being deployed by nefarious actors.

buhhh 5y ago
lmao
danbruc 5y ago
If there exist an blood test as the article claim it's should point to an chemical source rather then an electromagnetic source of the illness [...] Not necessarily, you could detect the reaction instead of the cause in the same way an antibody test does not detect the pathogen or a drug test may actually detect a metabolite and not the drug itself.
- dboreham 5y ago
  You'd need a test for "cooked flesh".
  - s1artibartfast 5y ago
    You can absolutely see results from cooked flesh on a blood test. The problem is that there are other possible causes for the results than cooked flesh
- Stranger43 5y ago
  for there to be specific antibodies to the cause i cant see how that would happen without some foreing element having been in the bloodstream. or be the result of close proximity to radioactive materials. It might be that they don't really have an blood test for specific traces but have an correlation between the presence of stress hormones and people suffering the symptoms which only really proves that the involved people are not lying about feeling sick, it don't really answer the "illness ray" vs "post traumatic stress" question.
  - Enginerrrd 5y ago
    This is wrong. There's actually biomarkers for PTSD that are detectable from a blood test. [1] Stresses can do all sorts of things, change gene expression, trigger proteins or breakdown products, etc, etc. All of those things can produce measurable changes. [1]https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21392516/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21392516/
    - Stranger43 5y ago
      yep thats kind of my point, PSTD is a real enough thing that it can legitimately cause symptoms and leave traces in the blood. The problem is that those are almost exactly the same kind of processes that theoretically could result in an "illness ray" leaving traces in the bloodstream. A big problem here is probably that the US government haven't yet fully internalized how real PSTD and other stress related symptoms are, and is still treating it as if kind of "fake" especially when it comes to paying for treatments. so the people campaigning for getting the victims help is forced to push some sci-fy inspired illness ray theory.
    - thatcat 5y ago
      That's neat, but the gap between going to a GP and getting that test administered in the US seems difficult to bridge.
eu2c 5y ago
> we are after all dealing with people living/working long hours inside an highly paranoid and potentially very dysfunctional organization Given the ever growing info streams pumping ever growing amounts of BS into their heads 24x7, its quite possible the brains Shannon Limit has been breached, which would mean ever increasing errors in what the brain perceives.
wang_li 5y ago
There are many blood tests to measure things that are not indicative of a chemical intrusion except in the loosest sense. Blood sugar, stress (cortisol), and vitamin d (blood chemistry changes directly influence by electromagnetic effects) are three basic examples that come to mind. White cell counts (for a number of reasons including radiation damage) comes to mind as well.
nicklecompte 5y ago
FWIW I suspect this is a case of mass hysteria or other psychogenic illness but there really are microwave weapons out there in the real world, and the Havana syndrome symptoms are quite similar to the results of microwave attacks (or accidental exposure, eg a sailor who steps in front of a powerful radar array). In fact I suspect the growing awareness of microwave weaponry - which are sincerely terrifying - makes the prospect of psychogenic illness more likely. > If there exist an blood test as the article claim it's should point to an chemical source rather then an electromagnetic source of the illness That’s not true - an EM attack could conceivably affect the blood chemistry directly (radiation can destroy proteins and cause complex organic reactions). But the symptoms themselves will also leave biomarkers that can be picked up - hormones, transmitters, etc. Even if it was a case of mass hysteria you could probably design a low-sensitivity blood test around it.

buhhh 5y ago

lmao

danbruc 5y ago

If there exist an blood test as the article claim it's should point to an chemical source rather then an electromagnetic source of the illness [...] Not necessarily, you could detect the reaction instead of the cause in the same way an antibody test does not detect the pathogen or a drug test may actually detect a metabolite and not the drug itself.

dboreham 5y ago
You'd need a test for "cooked flesh".
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  You can absolutely see results from cooked flesh on a blood test. The problem is that there are other possible causes for the results than cooked flesh
Stranger43 5y ago
for there to be specific antibodies to the cause i cant see how that would happen without some foreing element having been in the bloodstream. or be the result of close proximity to radioactive materials. It might be that they don't really have an blood test for specific traces but have an correlation between the presence of stress hormones and people suffering the symptoms which only really proves that the involved people are not lying about feeling sick, it don't really answer the "illness ray" vs "post traumatic stress" question.
- Enginerrrd 5y ago
  This is wrong. There's actually biomarkers for PTSD that are detectable from a blood test. [1] Stresses can do all sorts of things, change gene expression, trigger proteins or breakdown products, etc, etc. All of those things can produce measurable changes. [1]https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21392516/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21392516/
  - Stranger43 5y ago
    yep thats kind of my point, PSTD is a real enough thing that it can legitimately cause symptoms and leave traces in the blood. The problem is that those are almost exactly the same kind of processes that theoretically could result in an "illness ray" leaving traces in the bloodstream. A big problem here is probably that the US government haven't yet fully internalized how real PSTD and other stress related symptoms are, and is still treating it as if kind of "fake" especially when it comes to paying for treatments. so the people campaigning for getting the victims help is forced to push some sci-fy inspired illness ray theory.
  - thatcat 5y ago
    That's neat, but the gap between going to a GP and getting that test administered in the US seems difficult to bridge.

eu2c 5y ago

> we are after all dealing with people living/working long hours inside an highly paranoid and potentially very dysfunctional organization Given the ever growing info streams pumping ever growing amounts of BS into their heads 24x7, its quite possible the brains Shannon Limit has been breached, which would mean ever increasing errors in what the brain perceives.

wang_li 5y ago

There are many blood tests to measure things that are not indicative of a chemical intrusion except in the loosest sense. Blood sugar, stress (cortisol), and vitamin d (blood chemistry changes directly influence by electromagnetic effects) are three basic examples that come to mind. White cell counts (for a number of reasons including radiation damage) comes to mind as well.

nicklecompte 5y ago

FWIW I suspect this is a case of mass hysteria or other psychogenic illness but there really are microwave weapons out there in the real world, and the Havana syndrome symptoms are quite similar to the results of microwave attacks (or accidental exposure, eg a sailor who steps in front of a powerful radar array). In fact I suspect the growing awareness of microwave weaponry - which are sincerely terrifying - makes the prospect of psychogenic illness more likely. > If there exist an blood test as the article claim it's should point to an chemical source rather then an electromagnetic source of the illness That’s not true - an EM attack could conceivably affect the blood chemistry directly (radiation can destroy proteins and cause complex organic reactions). But the symptoms themselves will also leave biomarkers that can be picked up - hormones, transmitters, etc. Even if it was a case of mass hysteria you could probably design a low-sensitivity blood test around it.