4 ms·

Yep just kill him and then there's nobody to have that problem. /s

by tnzm 5y ago

bittercynic 5y ago
Damn, how about join a casual sports league or volunteer at Habitat or some kind of group sessions. Anything to get social experience.
- tnzm 5y ago
  Damn, have you considered social experience could be the reason someone ended like that? It's a feedback loop and the less in control you are, the less in control you are. Until you hit rock bottom. Which might not happen, and where you might bounce off, or not.
  - bittercynic 5y ago
    Absolutely, I'm no stranger to having a string of bad social experiences leading to becoming (more) unpleasant and then receiving unpleasant feedback. I didn't mean to suggest it would be easy, and if you know a better way to start trying to turn things around I'd like to hear it.
    - tnzm 5y ago
      No, sadly mine is the case of "bouncing off rock bottom". But I believe that our society claims the responsibility of helping its most vulnerable members to their feet? If that's the case I'm pretty sure someone would come up with a better way to do that than "a miracle", if we'd just all put our minds to the question of how to help people regain self-control, rather than leaving them to figure it out all on their own. The first step would be coming to terms with just how much we all rely on each other's helplessness.
  - zentiggr 5y ago
    I'm in the long slow process of rebuilding parts of my life that were stunted in childhood, and learning how to feel and show honest emotions instead of fearing that I'll be rejected just for showing myself. It is hard, and runs over into all the usual self-help, but the one thing that has pointed me in the right direction is when I realized that I choose how, and what, I show to the rest of the world, and if I want a positive feedback loop, it starts with me. You are always in control of your end of the loop. Always. No matter how it feels otherwise, You Always Have The Choice. It took me a lot to learn that, and I'm still working on it.
    - tnzm 5y ago
      "You're always in control" means "others will always hold you responsible, no matter whether you're in control or not". This model is called "virtue ethics" and I consider it disconnected from reality. If you don't know you're in control, you're not in control. It's as simple as that. In my ideal world, one who has lost their self-control or self-awareness would be helped by one's community to regain them. In reality, when normal people see your self-control faltering, they will either try to protect themselves from you or to take advantage of you. Maybe not murder you outright, but definitely get rid of your presence, which is only going to amplify the disconnect. That is a positive feedback loop, in the pure physical sense: the more alienated you are, the more alienated you become. It's like pointing a microphone at a loudspeaker. Any system, including your emotional well-being, generally needs a negative feedback loop: when you get too much of something, you start getting less of it, and when you get too little of something, you start getting more of it. This is complicated by ideological hijack of the signifiers "positive" and "negative". When they say "positive", they mean "thanks for accepting our groupthink as self-evident, you will be favored". When they say "negative" they mean "you have no right to be critical, you will be disregarded". I consider this use of language untruthful and abusive. > I choose how, and what, I show to the rest of the world, and if I want a positive feedback loop, it starts with me. I can't even tell if this is supposed to be 1 or 2 insights, but I can tell you're right about running into the usual self-help territory. To me such sentences are quite intentionally devoid of meaning (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought-terminating_clich%C3%A9 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought-terminating_clich%C3%A...), and following them to their logical conclusion would take one right back where one started, which is the ultimatum we're all born to: embrace the nonsense or perish.
      - bittercynic 5y ago
        I agree that the problem you've outlined here is a serious one, and I consider it a societal failure. It may be valuable to critique society from time to time, but when I spend too much time doing it only makes me miserable company for myself and anyone else who happens to be around. The self-help thing seeming to blame the victim is real, but I think it is possible to skirt that problem by setting aside blame and switching to something like: Something very bad is happening here, and I need to see what levers are available to me. I have much more power to change myself than to change society.

Yep just kill him and then there's nobody to have that problem. /s

by tnzm 5y ago

Yep just kill him and then there's nobody to have that problem. /s

Damn, how about join a casual sports league or volunteer at Habitat or some kind of group sessions. Anything to get social experience.

tnzm 5y ago
Damn, have you considered social experience could be the reason someone ended like that? It's a feedback loop and the less in control you are, the less in control you are. Until you hit rock bottom. Which might not happen, and where you might bounce off, or not.
- bittercynic 5y ago
  Absolutely, I'm no stranger to having a string of bad social experiences leading to becoming (more) unpleasant and then receiving unpleasant feedback. I didn't mean to suggest it would be easy, and if you know a better way to start trying to turn things around I'd like to hear it.
  - tnzm 5y ago
    No, sadly mine is the case of "bouncing off rock bottom". But I believe that our society claims the responsibility of helping its most vulnerable members to their feet? If that's the case I'm pretty sure someone would come up with a better way to do that than "a miracle", if we'd just all put our minds to the question of how to help people regain self-control, rather than leaving them to figure it out all on their own. The first step would be coming to terms with just how much we all rely on each other's helplessness.
- zentiggr 5y ago
  I'm in the long slow process of rebuilding parts of my life that were stunted in childhood, and learning how to feel and show honest emotions instead of fearing that I'll be rejected just for showing myself. It is hard, and runs over into all the usual self-help, but the one thing that has pointed me in the right direction is when I realized that I choose how, and what, I show to the rest of the world, and if I want a positive feedback loop, it starts with me. You are always in control of your end of the loop. Always. No matter how it feels otherwise, You Always Have The Choice. It took me a lot to learn that, and I'm still working on it.
  - tnzm 5y ago
    "You're always in control" means "others will always hold you responsible, no matter whether you're in control or not". This model is called "virtue ethics" and I consider it disconnected from reality. If you don't know you're in control, you're not in control. It's as simple as that. In my ideal world, one who has lost their self-control or self-awareness would be helped by one's community to regain them. In reality, when normal people see your self-control faltering, they will either try to protect themselves from you or to take advantage of you. Maybe not murder you outright, but definitely get rid of your presence, which is only going to amplify the disconnect. That is a positive feedback loop, in the pure physical sense: the more alienated you are, the more alienated you become. It's like pointing a microphone at a loudspeaker. Any system, including your emotional well-being, generally needs a negative feedback loop: when you get too much of something, you start getting less of it, and when you get too little of something, you start getting more of it. This is complicated by ideological hijack of the signifiers "positive" and "negative". When they say "positive", they mean "thanks for accepting our groupthink as self-evident, you will be favored". When they say "negative" they mean "you have no right to be critical, you will be disregarded". I consider this use of language untruthful and abusive. > I choose how, and what, I show to the rest of the world, and if I want a positive feedback loop, it starts with me. I can't even tell if this is supposed to be 1 or 2 insights, but I can tell you're right about running into the usual self-help territory. To me such sentences are quite intentionally devoid of meaning (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought-terminating_clich%C3%A9 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought-terminating_clich%C3%A...), and following them to their logical conclusion would take one right back where one started, which is the ultimatum we're all born to: embrace the nonsense or perish.
    - bittercynic 5y ago
      I agree that the problem you've outlined here is a serious one, and I consider it a societal failure. It may be valuable to critique society from time to time, but when I spend too much time doing it only makes me miserable company for myself and anyone else who happens to be around. The self-help thing seeming to blame the victim is real, but I think it is possible to skirt that problem by setting aside blame and switching to something like: Something very bad is happening here, and I need to see what levers are available to me. I have much more power to change myself than to change society.