5 ms·

Agreed - Spotify's UI is bad and getting worse, and its quality is meh, but its discovery features are top notch and it has the biggest catalog. I have audioph

Agreed - Spotify's UI is bad and getting worse, and its quality is meh, but its discovery features are top notch and it has the biggest catalog. I have audiophile equipment - $900 MSRP Hifiman headphones, discrete DAC and amp - and I tried Tidal to see if I could hear a difference. 99% of the time, I can't... and Tidal's MQA format is questionable anyway. (Not sure about Apple's "ALAC" either.) I used a playlist importer to get my playlists to Tidal, and about 90% of my tracks made it - with some obvious mismatches/songs not found for unclear reasons. (There were also, in fairness, a few songs Tidal did have which the import tool missed.) But Tidal just doesn't seem to have the radio and discovery features I use to find new music. If I used it, I'd have to constantly sync all my tracks (by paying for an external service) and risk losing some of them, for an audio quality difference that even most audiophiles seem to admit is negligible unless you're in ideal listening conditions with a track you know extremely well. So even though they're constantly making things worse, I will stick with Spotify for now.

formerly_proven 5y ago
ALAC and FLAC are technically very similar formats [1]. Both are bit-perfect. Compare with MQA which is utter garbage and has absolutely zero to do with losless. MQA is actually, objectively worse than 16 bit audio CDs. An abject failure backed by an aggressively anti-science company backed up by a bunch of lawyers. [1] Both encode a PCM stream using linear prediction while storing the difference between the predictor's output and the actual samples. This allows recreating the samples with zero error when decompressing. It's functionally equivalent to .wav.gz.
- ivraatiems 5y ago
  Yeah, I've heard similar about MQA. To be honest though, what's the science behind any of these formats in terms of listening experience? Clearly there are differences in the data and how much of the original content is represented. But have there been any studies on whether people can actually tell any difference? I've come across some quizzes online, etc., and those mostly suggest I can sometimes tell, but even when I can, it's not obvious and it doesn't really impact my experience. Would be curious whether anyone has studied this more fully.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- throw_nbvc1234 5y ago
  Just to add to this comment, the video breakdowns I've watched on MQA are interesting listens even as someone who doesn't use Tidal. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRjsu9-Vznc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRjsu9-Vznc -- Critque of MQA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwZ5hDzQ5Jg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwZ5hDzQ5Jg -- in defense of MQA At the end of the day, people should listen to what they think sounds good (is this an opinion?). If a placebo makes someone enjoy something more, is it really a placebo? If someone can't tell the difference between low quality recordings and high quality recordings, why should they go through the trouble of sourcing the high quality stuff. It's so easy to lose track of the subjective nature of audio in all of the objective details.
  - formerly_proven 5y ago
    That's not really the point here - if someone says "I like how this sounds with (MQA artifacts | tube distortions | +20 dB bass)", that's perfectly fine and not something many if any people would argue with.
    - ivraatiems 5y ago
      That's fine, but it's not fine to claim MQA is lossless or represents the original lossless file.
- vr46 5y ago
  Very interesting and completely new to me, I had no idea Tidal wasn’t the equivalent of lossless.
tristanc 5y ago
Over and over again I’ve been impressed with Tidal’s song radio functionality. Unless you’re trying it out with very obscure songs that might only have a few listens total on the platform, Tidal’s radio always recommends tracks that are specific to that track’s subgenre/region. Meanwhile Spotify always seems to recommend songs that are only mildly related and that I’ve already listened to. Other than playlists, it feels more difficult to discover new music on Spotify than on Tidal.
- pnt12 5y ago
  To me that's a great feature from Spotify, as I like exploring lota a lot of different genres and sounds. But I can see that is a personal taste and others would prefer a different experince.
- Drew_ 5y ago
  Is shuffling large playlists still broken on Android for Tidal (only shuffles the first 30 or so and then nothing)? That problem got me to unsubscribe even though I was loving the HiFi streaming. It was broken around Christmas 2019 and still was broken months later. They're Android app receives little to no support.
smoldesu 5y ago
>I have audiophile equipment - $900 MSRP Hifiman headphones, discrete DAC and amp - and I tried Tidal to see if I could hear a difference. 99% of the time, I can't... and Tidal's MQA format is questionable anyway. (Not sure about Apple's "ALAC" either.) Comparing Spotify on high settings to the WAVs I have stored on my computer, the difference is hardly noticeable. I'm convinced that Spotify's sound depends more on the systems audio pipeline.
nceqs3 5y ago
@Spotify. Why is there no 2FA yet? Why can't I customize my homepage? Why can't I have unlimited artists on my recent searches?
- ivraatiems 5y ago
  They're busy redesigning the UI so desktop is more like mobile, but only in ways that make it slightly worse.
vr46 5y ago
I run Spotify Connect through a Naim Uniti, but I don’t have Tidal support yet. I did test through headphones - Grado - and tried to correct for volume level, but my conclusion was just that they sound slightly different, but not objectively better/worse. I am pleased to hear that others seem to feel the same, as it makes it easier to ignore the competing streaming race and get back to the music…
throw_this_one 5y ago
Dude their adding/removing songs from the Liked Songs list is ridic haha. They had the heart button right next to where you scroll. It's been idiotic for years. How can a company like that have such an obvious flaw in the UI?
infensus 5y ago
Though I generally agree, one ridiculous thing Spotify does is suggesting new releases by just matching the artist's name to your history. Not rarely I get some new releases from a completely different artist just because they have the same name
notyourwork 5y ago
> and it has the biggest catalog. That's not entirely accurate. Amazon Music (unlimited) and Spotify catalogs are approximately same.
- ivraatiems 5y ago
  The "approximately" does a lot of work. I haven't tried Amazon music, but with Tidal and other platforms, there are substantial gaps.
marrone12 5y ago
I'm a big fan of Qobuz. It has human curated playlists and features, which is really nice. It's also truly lossless unlike MQA. I'll agree with you that 90% of the time, I can't tell the difference. But for my most loved albums, I still prefer listening to lossless on my hifi system.

formerly_proven 5y ago

ALAC and FLAC are technically very similar formats [1]. Both are bit-perfect. Compare with MQA which is utter garbage and has absolutely zero to do with losless. MQA is actually, objectively worse than 16 bit audio CDs. An abject failure backed by an aggressively anti-science company backed up by a bunch of lawyers. [1] Both encode a PCM stream using linear prediction while storing the difference between the predictor's output and the actual samples. This allows recreating the samples with zero error when decompressing. It's functionally equivalent to .wav.gz.

ivraatiems 5y ago
Yeah, I've heard similar about MQA. To be honest though, what's the science behind any of these formats in terms of listening experience? Clearly there are differences in the data and how much of the original content is represented. But have there been any studies on whether people can actually tell any difference? I've come across some quizzes online, etc., and those mostly suggest I can sometimes tell, but even when I can, it's not obvious and it doesn't really impact my experience. Would be curious whether anyone has studied this more fully.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
throw_nbvc1234 5y ago
Just to add to this comment, the video breakdowns I've watched on MQA are interesting listens even as someone who doesn't use Tidal. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRjsu9-Vznc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRjsu9-Vznc -- Critque of MQA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwZ5hDzQ5Jg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwZ5hDzQ5Jg -- in defense of MQA At the end of the day, people should listen to what they think sounds good (is this an opinion?). If a placebo makes someone enjoy something more, is it really a placebo? If someone can't tell the difference between low quality recordings and high quality recordings, why should they go through the trouble of sourcing the high quality stuff. It's so easy to lose track of the subjective nature of audio in all of the objective details.
- formerly_proven 5y ago
  That's not really the point here - if someone says "I like how this sounds with (MQA artifacts | tube distortions | +20 dB bass)", that's perfectly fine and not something many if any people would argue with.
  - ivraatiems 5y ago
    That's fine, but it's not fine to claim MQA is lossless or represents the original lossless file.
vr46 5y ago
Very interesting and completely new to me, I had no idea Tidal wasn’t the equivalent of lossless.

tristanc 5y ago

Over and over again I’ve been impressed with Tidal’s song radio functionality. Unless you’re trying it out with very obscure songs that might only have a few listens total on the platform, Tidal’s radio always recommends tracks that are specific to that track’s subgenre/region. Meanwhile Spotify always seems to recommend songs that are only mildly related and that I’ve already listened to. Other than playlists, it feels more difficult to discover new music on Spotify than on Tidal.

pnt12 5y ago
To me that's a great feature from Spotify, as I like exploring lota a lot of different genres and sounds. But I can see that is a personal taste and others would prefer a different experince.
Drew_ 5y ago
Is shuffling large playlists still broken on Android for Tidal (only shuffles the first 30 or so and then nothing)? That problem got me to unsubscribe even though I was loving the HiFi streaming. It was broken around Christmas 2019 and still was broken months later. They're Android app receives little to no support.

smoldesu 5y ago

>I have audiophile equipment - $900 MSRP Hifiman headphones, discrete DAC and amp - and I tried Tidal to see if I could hear a difference. 99% of the time, I can't... and Tidal's MQA format is questionable anyway. (Not sure about Apple's "ALAC" either.) Comparing Spotify on high settings to the WAVs I have stored on my computer, the difference is hardly noticeable. I'm convinced that Spotify's sound depends more on the systems audio pipeline.

nceqs3 5y ago

@Spotify. Why is there no 2FA yet? Why can't I customize my homepage? Why can't I have unlimited artists on my recent searches?

ivraatiems 5y ago
They're busy redesigning the UI so desktop is more like mobile, but only in ways that make it slightly worse.

vr46 5y ago

I run Spotify Connect through a Naim Uniti, but I don’t have Tidal support yet. I did test through headphones - Grado - and tried to correct for volume level, but my conclusion was just that they sound slightly different, but not objectively better/worse. I am pleased to hear that others seem to feel the same, as it makes it easier to ignore the competing streaming race and get back to the music…

throw_this_one 5y ago

Dude their adding/removing songs from the Liked Songs list is ridic haha. They had the heart button right next to where you scroll. It's been idiotic for years. How can a company like that have such an obvious flaw in the UI?

infensus 5y ago

Though I generally agree, one ridiculous thing Spotify does is suggesting new releases by just matching the artist's name to your history. Not rarely I get some new releases from a completely different artist just because they have the same name

notyourwork 5y ago

> and it has the biggest catalog. That's not entirely accurate. Amazon Music (unlimited) and Spotify catalogs are approximately same.

ivraatiems 5y ago
The "approximately" does a lot of work. I haven't tried Amazon music, but with Tidal and other platforms, there are substantial gaps.

marrone12 5y ago

I'm a big fan of Qobuz. It has human curated playlists and features, which is really nice. It's also truly lossless unlike MQA. I'll agree with you that 90% of the time, I can't tell the difference. But for my most loved albums, I still prefer listening to lossless on my hifi system.