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Self-driving is another problem that seems like it's a constrained scope. After all, there's a clear rule set and even lines on the ground! But like so many fie

by luplex 5y ago

Self-driving is another problem that seems like it's a constrained scope. After all, there's a clear rule set and even lines on the ground! But like so many fields, it's very hard to model the human actors, their feelings and intentions. We understand quite well how to get a 3d representation of the scene and model basic physics. But we need a lot of further work to handle the messiness and complex expectations in real life. You basically need to understand much more of the world than we thought to handle edge cases in driving. On the other hand, some jobs are so standardized that robots really can - and do - replace them. A cashier's job really is a lot simpler than a driver's. P.S. At the very bottom of the page: "If you found an error, highlight it and press shift+enter to notify us" This is the first time I see something like this, it's awesome!

ben_w 5y ago
> A cashier's job really is a lot simpler than a driver's. Even then, part of a cashier’s job is to avoid shoplifting: https://www.securitytags.com/theft-self-checkout https://www.securitytags.com/theft-self-checkout
- skywhopper 5y ago
  ...and to solve problems with equipment, and to access items that can’t be left unsupervised, and to answer questions, and to observe interactions between customers and intervene if necessary, and to notify management of problems they cannot solve, and, and, and...
  - ghaff 5y ago
    You see a pretty clear model today with self-checkout. And it's probably the same even if you make self-checkout better. You have people readily available when things don't "just work."
- notahacker 5y ago
  And the majority of a cashier's job isn't automated away by self checkouts, it's simply passed to the customer...
lastofthemojito 5y ago
Well there are sometimes lines on the ground. Sometimes there aren't. Sometimes during construction you're directed along a temporarily lane, ignoring the lines on the ground. Other times you want to carefully follow the lines on the ground, except when there's a vehicle stopped in the road, then you want to go outside the lines, but return as soon as possible. Sometimes there's snow or ice and the lines are intermittently visible, so you need to extrapolate where you think the lines might be, and maybe get fooled momentarily by a patch of snow that looks like a white line. Sometimes the snow is heavy and other drivers have decided that a multiple lane highway is now going to be treated as a single lane, and for the sake of safety you should probably follow suit. Self-driving feels like edge cases all the way down.
- greenyoda 5y ago
  The rules aren't that clear either. For example, defensive driving classes emphasize that there are rules that specify which car has right of way (e.g., at an all-way stop sign), but just because you have the right of way doesn't mean that you should proceed. If another driver disregards your right of way, it's your legal obligation to stop and avoid a crash - you can't blame the crash on the other driver. Also, just because the speed limit sign says 55mph, it doesn't mean that you can always drive at 55mph - there's always an implicit rule that you must consider current road conditions. For example, if you're doing 55 while the highway is covered with ice or there's zero visibility due to fog, a cop can still pull you over for reckless driving. Then, there are clear rules that change suddenly due to geography. For example, in NY State, you can turn right at a red light after coming to a full stop, unless posted otherwise... except within the boundaries of NY City. And NYC has a default speed limit of 25mph, generally slower than in neighboring counties. Rules can also change according to time. Can a self-driving car understand a sign that says "School Zone - Speed limit 15 when light flashing"?

by luplex 5y ago

ben_w 5y ago

> A cashier's job really is a lot simpler than a driver's. Even then, part of a cashier’s job is to avoid shoplifting: https://www.securitytags.com/theft-self-checkout https://www.securitytags.com/theft-self-checkout

skywhopper 5y ago
...and to solve problems with equipment, and to access items that can’t be left unsupervised, and to answer questions, and to observe interactions between customers and intervene if necessary, and to notify management of problems they cannot solve, and, and, and...
- ghaff 5y ago
  You see a pretty clear model today with self-checkout. And it's probably the same even if you make self-checkout better. You have people readily available when things don't "just work."
notahacker 5y ago
And the majority of a cashier's job isn't automated away by self checkouts, it's simply passed to the customer...

lastofthemojito 5y ago

Well there are sometimes lines on the ground. Sometimes there aren't. Sometimes during construction you're directed along a temporarily lane, ignoring the lines on the ground. Other times you want to carefully follow the lines on the ground, except when there's a vehicle stopped in the road, then you want to go outside the lines, but return as soon as possible. Sometimes there's snow or ice and the lines are intermittently visible, so you need to extrapolate where you think the lines might be, and maybe get fooled momentarily by a patch of snow that looks like a white line. Sometimes the snow is heavy and other drivers have decided that a multiple lane highway is now going to be treated as a single lane, and for the sake of safety you should probably follow suit. Self-driving feels like edge cases all the way down.

greenyoda 5y ago
The rules aren't that clear either. For example, defensive driving classes emphasize that there are rules that specify which car has right of way (e.g., at an all-way stop sign), but just because you have the right of way doesn't mean that you should proceed. If another driver disregards your right of way, it's your legal obligation to stop and avoid a crash - you can't blame the crash on the other driver. Also, just because the speed limit sign says 55mph, it doesn't mean that you can always drive at 55mph - there's always an implicit rule that you must consider current road conditions. For example, if you're doing 55 while the highway is covered with ice or there's zero visibility due to fog, a cop can still pull you over for reckless driving. Then, there are clear rules that change suddenly due to geography. For example, in NY State, you can turn right at a red light after coming to a full stop, unless posted otherwise... except within the boundaries of NY City. And NYC has a default speed limit of 25mph, generally slower than in neighboring counties. Rules can also change according to time. Can a self-driving car understand a sign that says "School Zone - Speed limit 15 when light flashing"?