4 ms·

Do we get respect as SWE in EU? In every eu state I have been, except maybe uk in some sector, there was the meme that we are "the new blue collar workers" and

by yulaow 5y ago

Do we get respect as SWE in EU? In every eu state I have been, except maybe uk in some sector, there was the meme that we are "the new blue collar workers" and indeed in a lot of places salaries were pretty much aligned

wsc981 5y ago
I think it you want to feel respected as developer in Western Europe, you should be consulting. The best way to get a respectable compensation for your efforts.
- varispeed 5y ago
  The governments found out that people are making too good money doing this. For example in the UK there is a term "disguised employment" thrown around and consultants being smeared as tax dodgers. This year they changed the law, so that company must declare whether hired person is a genuine contractor or de-facto an employee. There is a fine if they declare a disguised employee as a contractor, but not the other way around. The effect is that companies now offer contracts that always place a contractor as a disguised employee to avoid problems with the tax man. As a result such consultant has to pay over 50% in effective tax. Many good ones I know already looking to move overseas.
ehnto 5y ago
I am a software developer, and I feel software developers expect a lot more than is reasonable if they consider themselves part of the same society as everyone else. It's just a job like any other, and it's only in certain bubbles that developers are treated like rockstar prodigies. For the rest of the world, or even just the rest of the US, to expect exceptionally high compensation in order to feel respected is unreasonable in my opinion. Software is an incredible tool and I'm glad to still find ways to love it, but as a profession, it's just like any other. I have felt this way for a while, because I feel we can do a lot more meaningful work within our communities with software than we currently do. But all the developers are instead busy building Nudity in Kettle Reflection algorithms for market place image uploaders while getting rained on by VC money.
- sudopluto 5y ago
  hmm, maybe i should study computer graphics so i can work on those algorithms lol
- rudnevr 5y ago
  From my observation in several countries and industries, software development is not the job like any other. Simply becase software development sucks thinking and knowledge from the product/sales/manager silos. To make things works you have to know much more than many managers do. Effectively you do the digging, the thinking, the analysis, the design - via tooling or via POCs directly, and SDE is the sink who gets everything that other folks didn't think or care. It's not like Uber driver who drives you where you want. It's more like baby-sitter who also serves like a Virgil, a guide in the hell, and who takes all the risks.
- 908B64B197 5y ago
  > It's just a job like any other, and it's only in certain bubbles that developers are treated like rockstar prodigies. The bubbles that did however did incredibly well compared to the rest of the market. And often crushed traditional companies with a traditional view Software and engineers. > Software is an incredible tool and I'm glad to still find ways to love it, but as a profession, it's just like any other. The thing is, software scales almost infinitely. For a doctor to double his output, he'd have to put in twice the hours. For a software engineers to double his. But a 10x userbase growth? Happens overnight at some companies. That's where it's different.
908B64B197 5y ago
EU devs get a lot of respect... here in the Valley!

by yulaow 5y ago

wsc981 5y ago

I think it you want to feel respected as developer in Western Europe, you should be consulting. The best way to get a respectable compensation for your efforts.

varispeed 5y ago
The governments found out that people are making too good money doing this. For example in the UK there is a term "disguised employment" thrown around and consultants being smeared as tax dodgers. This year they changed the law, so that company must declare whether hired person is a genuine contractor or de-facto an employee. There is a fine if they declare a disguised employee as a contractor, but not the other way around. The effect is that companies now offer contracts that always place a contractor as a disguised employee to avoid problems with the tax man. As a result such consultant has to pay over 50% in effective tax. Many good ones I know already looking to move overseas.

ehnto 5y ago

I am a software developer, and I feel software developers expect a lot more than is reasonable if they consider themselves part of the same society as everyone else. It's just a job like any other, and it's only in certain bubbles that developers are treated like rockstar prodigies. For the rest of the world, or even just the rest of the US, to expect exceptionally high compensation in order to feel respected is unreasonable in my opinion. Software is an incredible tool and I'm glad to still find ways to love it, but as a profession, it's just like any other. I have felt this way for a while, because I feel we can do a lot more meaningful work within our communities with software than we currently do. But all the developers are instead busy building Nudity in Kettle Reflection algorithms for market place image uploaders while getting rained on by VC money.

sudopluto 5y ago
hmm, maybe i should study computer graphics so i can work on those algorithms lol
rudnevr 5y ago
From my observation in several countries and industries, software development is not the job like any other. Simply becase software development sucks thinking and knowledge from the product/sales/manager silos. To make things works you have to know much more than many managers do. Effectively you do the digging, the thinking, the analysis, the design - via tooling or via POCs directly, and SDE is the sink who gets everything that other folks didn't think or care. It's not like Uber driver who drives you where you want. It's more like baby-sitter who also serves like a Virgil, a guide in the hell, and who takes all the risks.
908B64B197 5y ago
> It's just a job like any other, and it's only in certain bubbles that developers are treated like rockstar prodigies. The bubbles that did however did incredibly well compared to the rest of the market. And often crushed traditional companies with a traditional view Software and engineers. > Software is an incredible tool and I'm glad to still find ways to love it, but as a profession, it's just like any other. The thing is, software scales almost infinitely. For a doctor to double his output, he'd have to put in twice the hours. For a software engineers to double his. But a 10x userbase growth? Happens overnight at some companies. That's where it's different.

908B64B197 5y ago

EU devs get a lot of respect... here in the Valley!