5 ms·

A bit redundant. We know how to “kill” the SARS-CoV-2 virus in vitro (in a test tube). Ammonia, bleach, UV light. Heck, even diluted mouthwash will do the tric

A bit redundant. We know how to “kill” the SARS-CoV-2 virus in vitro (in a test tube). Ammonia, bleach, UV light. Heck, even diluted mouthwash will do the trick. The problem is that none of these approaches are safe in vivo (in the body). All of the approaches the article talks will require years of human testing. The drug EIDD-2801 does similar things but has yet to pass testing even after 12 months of studies.

stonogo 5y ago
This isn't about "killing" the virus, it's about inhibiting its ability to reproduce. Pointedly, it's about doing so without introducing mutagens like EIDD-2801, but instead by inhibiting a specific ribosomal behavior induced by a component of the virus. Finding a safe mechanism to do so is the next step in their research. I suspect your interpretation of the article might be off. This work is a great example of the new insights we get from recent advances in cryo-electron microscopy. It's much easier to formulate responses to mechanisms when we can get clear pictures of the sites in question.
- failwhaleshark 5y ago
  Suppose protein folding simulation and manufacturing can rapidly advance well beyond current levels. It seems like a hypothetical synthetic immune system that whitelists every configuration of every protein an individual can possibly generate and excludes everything else (if possible) would be a way to blanket eliminate unknown unknowns proactively like SELinux for the body.
  - pontifier 5y ago
    I did a thought experiment about how the immune system must work and came up with a simple system using only mechanisms that I know are available molecularly. If you could have a bunch of random protein sensors that undergo a training phase where they learn what "Host" is. Anything that makes a "detection" during training is discarded. Anything that doesn't is either never going to detect stuff, or might detect something "Foreign". These then float around your blood stream and either do nothing until they are lost, or go crazy replicating and raising the alarm when something Foreign shows up. A danger with this method is random sequences that are just really bad at detecting "Host" or a training period that is cut short. This might lead to autoimmune responses. This thought might give some hints about how to combat autoimmune diseases without disrupting the greater immune system.
    - failwhaleshark 5y ago
      Perhaps an improved auto-recognition "self" system that uses something like public key crypto and a challenge-response.
      - pontifier 5y ago
        The biggest advantage we have is that we might identify the responsible bad signaler, and then target it for removal somehow. I wouldn't want to mess with it more than that...for now.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - hermitdev 5y ago
    Such a system would effectively halt evolution, though.
    - adrianN 5y ago
      I don't think biological evolution is an important factor in modern humans.
      - thesnide 5y ago
        That comment is spectaculary equally insightful, humorous and sad.
        bbarnett 5y ago
        Within 20 years every newborn will be gene edited. Likely, human intelligence and world view will end up being derived from a handful of genes, thus further blinding humanity to data outside of our worldview. Imagine a world where everyone has the same level, and type, of emotional response to data, feels the same as a result of environmental stimuli, eg cold/warm/wet etc. Imagine a world where if your next door neighbor cannot figure out something, no one ever can, for there are no geniuses or dullards. The sameness of thought will make future society dull, compared to the Amish. (Think it won't happen that fast? Laws will prevent it? Imagine your neighbour flies off-shore, and comes back with his child gene edited for appearance, intelligence, health. Now you are about to have a child. What do you do? Compared to the neighbour's child, yours will be dull, sickly, ugly. What will you do? Now imagine the rich and powerful do this, bit you cannot afford it? 1%er indeed.)
        londons_explore 5y ago
        You should read Brave New World by Aldous Huxley.
        adrianN 5y ago
        I think you overestimate the importance of genes. Twins are not identical people.
emmelaich 5y ago
This trial says UV light can be safe. Take it for what you will. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.05.21252997v1.full.pdf https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.05.21252997v...
xx789 5y ago
I believe Trump is famous for discovering this and they were going to try how drinking or injecting bleach could be used?
bawolff 5y ago
The article's about a method they hope will be safe in the body. Maybe they're right maybe they are wrong, but hardly seems redundant.
- thepangolino 5y ago
  We also have known about this for a long while. A pity the article doesn't mention what the "compounds" are zinc based and are the mechanism of action of HCQ based treatments.

stonogo 5y ago

This isn't about "killing" the virus, it's about inhibiting its ability to reproduce. Pointedly, it's about doing so without introducing mutagens like EIDD-2801, but instead by inhibiting a specific ribosomal behavior induced by a component of the virus. Finding a safe mechanism to do so is the next step in their research. I suspect your interpretation of the article might be off. This work is a great example of the new insights we get from recent advances in cryo-electron microscopy. It's much easier to formulate responses to mechanisms when we can get clear pictures of the sites in question.

failwhaleshark 5y ago
Suppose protein folding simulation and manufacturing can rapidly advance well beyond current levels. It seems like a hypothetical synthetic immune system that whitelists every configuration of every protein an individual can possibly generate and excludes everything else (if possible) would be a way to blanket eliminate unknown unknowns proactively like SELinux for the body.
- pontifier 5y ago
  I did a thought experiment about how the immune system must work and came up with a simple system using only mechanisms that I know are available molecularly. If you could have a bunch of random protein sensors that undergo a training phase where they learn what "Host" is. Anything that makes a "detection" during training is discarded. Anything that doesn't is either never going to detect stuff, or might detect something "Foreign". These then float around your blood stream and either do nothing until they are lost, or go crazy replicating and raising the alarm when something Foreign shows up. A danger with this method is random sequences that are just really bad at detecting "Host" or a training period that is cut short. This might lead to autoimmune responses. This thought might give some hints about how to combat autoimmune diseases without disrupting the greater immune system.
  - failwhaleshark 5y ago
    Perhaps an improved auto-recognition "self" system that uses something like public key crypto and a challenge-response.
    - pontifier 5y ago
      The biggest advantage we have is that we might identify the responsible bad signaler, and then target it for removal somehow. I wouldn't want to mess with it more than that...for now.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- hermitdev 5y ago
  Such a system would effectively halt evolution, though.
  - adrianN 5y ago
    I don't think biological evolution is an important factor in modern humans.
    - thesnide 5y ago
      That comment is spectaculary equally insightful, humorous and sad.
      - bbarnett 5y ago
        Within 20 years every newborn will be gene edited. Likely, human intelligence and world view will end up being derived from a handful of genes, thus further blinding humanity to data outside of our worldview. Imagine a world where everyone has the same level, and type, of emotional response to data, feels the same as a result of environmental stimuli, eg cold/warm/wet etc. Imagine a world where if your next door neighbor cannot figure out something, no one ever can, for there are no geniuses or dullards. The sameness of thought will make future society dull, compared to the Amish. (Think it won't happen that fast? Laws will prevent it? Imagine your neighbour flies off-shore, and comes back with his child gene edited for appearance, intelligence, health. Now you are about to have a child. What do you do? Compared to the neighbour's child, yours will be dull, sickly, ugly. What will you do? Now imagine the rich and powerful do this, bit you cannot afford it? 1%er indeed.)
        londons_explore 5y ago
        You should read Brave New World by Aldous Huxley.
        adrianN 5y ago
        I think you overestimate the importance of genes. Twins are not identical people.

emmelaich 5y ago

This trial says UV light can be safe. Take it for what you will. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.05.21252997v1.full.pdf https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.05.21252997v...

xx789 5y ago

I believe Trump is famous for discovering this and they were going to try how drinking or injecting bleach could be used?

bawolff 5y ago

The article's about a method they hope will be safe in the body. Maybe they're right maybe they are wrong, but hardly seems redundant.

thepangolino 5y ago
We also have known about this for a long while. A pity the article doesn't mention what the "compounds" are zinc based and are the mechanism of action of HCQ based treatments.