4 ms·

How strong is anti vaccine / anti mask movement in the US? As I see there's very little of it "on the american side of the internet", meanwhile "here" they ten

How strong is anti vaccine / anti mask movement in the US? As I see there's very little of it "on the american side of the internet", meanwhile "here" they tend to cause a lot of disruption and shitton of missinformation

mojomark 5y ago
I would not conflate "anti-vaccine people" with "anti-mask people". I live in the state of Maryland and yesterday our governor lifted the mask requirement for vaccinated people. I am a fiscal conservative and am vaccinated (got it as soon as I could, because science and common sense informed me that I should). I have relatives, including my own mother, who are far right wing and will not get vaccinated because they believe COVID is a conspiracy and/or "fake" (... I know). As far as I'm concerned, folks who refuse to get vaccinated are on their own and all of the remaining vaccine doses should get sent to people and countries who actually want and need it most. I realize that's cold. I also realise that's a logistical nightmare, but I have zero empathy for people who refuse to get vaccinated and then contract COVID. So, I am for vaccines, but in regions where vaccines have been fully offered to every single citizen that wants one, I am against forcing the wearing of masks. I still carry a mask in case I'm in a situation that warrants, but I will not inconvenience myself any longer for someone who refuses to do the bare minimum to protect themselves from COVID.
- raphlinus 5y ago
  I am not in exactly the same place, but respect your comment as being at least logically self-consistent. It reminds me of Jody Lanard's thread[1] about how the new CDC guidelines are "adultifying" in that they transfer the decision back to individuals rather than paternalistic guidelines. The way I think about it is that until recently, the risk calculus was analogous to drunk driving, but is now more similar to riding a motorcycle without a helmet. [1]: https://twitter.com/EIDGeek/status/1393987801260204034 https://twitter.com/EIDGeek/status/1393987801260204034
  - mojomark 5y ago
    > The way I think about it is that until recently, the risk calculus was analogous to drunk driving, but is now more similar to riding a motorcycle without a helmet. Appreciate the link and I fully concur with your analogy. It may boil down to some psychological primitive (perhaps some deep-rooted defense mechanism that developed in my youth), but within this analogy I also say "let people wear or not wear helmets on bikes, the risk and evidence have been clearly presented for decades". I know, in my heart of hearts that this is a cold stance. Perhaps because you can't possibly assume to know the circumstances that led a person not to wear a helmet on a bike (or get a vaccine). Maybe they're a young teen revelling from their parents or were extremely sheltered in some way from the evidence that would have changed their mind. There are a lot of "if's" here. At some point, in my value set, you have to draw the line and look out for yourself and loved ones first. I went out today without a mask and it was amazing (it felt better than I expected). That said, based on your comment, I will give more consideration to wearing masks in public as general practice for the next month or so. However, I can't live like that forever. There will be a turning point.
kortex 5y ago
Strong and unevenly distributed. The more rural the area, the less vaccinations are occurring, and also less mask compliance. So the ~33% anti-vaxxers aren't evenly distributed, they are probably <10% in some and >50% in others. As of May 16, there is about 45% vaccinated in New England but <30% in the deep south. This means there will likely be covid hotspots and reservoirs for a long time. https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/states-ranked-by-percentage-of-population-vaccinated-march-15.html https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/states-r...
- jointpdf 5y ago
  I think reflexively labeling every eligible but unvaccinated person as an anti-vaxxer is a mistake (not that you specifically did this here, but many are quick to shame). Many people are on-the-fence for a variety of reasons, and alienating them makes it more likely that they stay unvaccinated. Here are are two examples: Just last night I met a guy that lives in my building—a gregarious blue-collar type guy. At one point he got kind of hushed and asked me if I had gotten the vaccine (yes) and what my experience was. He divulged he was hesitant (but “not like that”), citing concerns about possible unknowns or side effects. I just tried to convey my honest (very positive/no side effects) experience, some spare stats about vaccine protectiveness, perks (“you can go to Greece!”), and warmly encouraged him to go for it. I like to think I passed my CHA check, since he nodded his approval and said he was going to keep his appointment. My sister and her husband (a private school teacher earning ~$40k a year in San Diego) recently lost their insurance, only have internet via the library, etc. She is not an anti-vaxxer by any stretch, but is often (understandably overwhelmed by interacting with the healthcare system. In her case, she just needed some reassurance about access/costs and some help scheduling. Anyways, there are many others out there like them. What seems like a no-brainer to many of us can often be more complex decision/task for many everyday people. And many of them are right there...just one non-judgmental conversation or helping ha f away from being nudged in the right direction.

mojomark 5y ago

I would not conflate "anti-vaccine people" with "anti-mask people". I live in the state of Maryland and yesterday our governor lifted the mask requirement for vaccinated people. I am a fiscal conservative and am vaccinated (got it as soon as I could, because science and common sense informed me that I should). I have relatives, including my own mother, who are far right wing and will not get vaccinated because they believe COVID is a conspiracy and/or "fake" (... I know). As far as I'm concerned, folks who refuse to get vaccinated are on their own and all of the remaining vaccine doses should get sent to people and countries who actually want and need it most. I realize that's cold. I also realise that's a logistical nightmare, but I have zero empathy for people who refuse to get vaccinated and then contract COVID. So, I am for vaccines, but in regions where vaccines have been fully offered to every single citizen that wants one, I am against forcing the wearing of masks. I still carry a mask in case I'm in a situation that warrants, but I will not inconvenience myself any longer for someone who refuses to do the bare minimum to protect themselves from COVID.

raphlinus 5y ago
I am not in exactly the same place, but respect your comment as being at least logically self-consistent. It reminds me of Jody Lanard's thread[1] about how the new CDC guidelines are "adultifying" in that they transfer the decision back to individuals rather than paternalistic guidelines. The way I think about it is that until recently, the risk calculus was analogous to drunk driving, but is now more similar to riding a motorcycle without a helmet. [1]: https://twitter.com/EIDGeek/status/1393987801260204034 https://twitter.com/EIDGeek/status/1393987801260204034
- mojomark 5y ago
  > The way I think about it is that until recently, the risk calculus was analogous to drunk driving, but is now more similar to riding a motorcycle without a helmet. Appreciate the link and I fully concur with your analogy. It may boil down to some psychological primitive (perhaps some deep-rooted defense mechanism that developed in my youth), but within this analogy I also say "let people wear or not wear helmets on bikes, the risk and evidence have been clearly presented for decades". I know, in my heart of hearts that this is a cold stance. Perhaps because you can't possibly assume to know the circumstances that led a person not to wear a helmet on a bike (or get a vaccine). Maybe they're a young teen revelling from their parents or were extremely sheltered in some way from the evidence that would have changed their mind. There are a lot of "if's" here. At some point, in my value set, you have to draw the line and look out for yourself and loved ones first. I went out today without a mask and it was amazing (it felt better than I expected). That said, based on your comment, I will give more consideration to wearing masks in public as general practice for the next month or so. However, I can't live like that forever. There will be a turning point.

kortex 5y ago

Strong and unevenly distributed. The more rural the area, the less vaccinations are occurring, and also less mask compliance. So the ~33% anti-vaxxers aren't evenly distributed, they are probably <10% in some and >50% in others. As of May 16, there is about 45% vaccinated in New England but <30% in the deep south. This means there will likely be covid hotspots and reservoirs for a long time. https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/states-ranked-by-percentage-of-population-vaccinated-march-15.html https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/states-r...

jointpdf 5y ago
I think reflexively labeling every eligible but unvaccinated person as an anti-vaxxer is a mistake (not that you specifically did this here, but many are quick to shame). Many people are on-the-fence for a variety of reasons, and alienating them makes it more likely that they stay unvaccinated. Here are are two examples: Just last night I met a guy that lives in my building—a gregarious blue-collar type guy. At one point he got kind of hushed and asked me if I had gotten the vaccine (yes) and what my experience was. He divulged he was hesitant (but “not like that”), citing concerns about possible unknowns or side effects. I just tried to convey my honest (very positive/no side effects) experience, some spare stats about vaccine protectiveness, perks (“you can go to Greece!”), and warmly encouraged him to go for it. I like to think I passed my CHA check, since he nodded his approval and said he was going to keep his appointment. My sister and her husband (a private school teacher earning ~$40k a year in San Diego) recently lost their insurance, only have internet via the library, etc. She is not an anti-vaxxer by any stretch, but is often (understandably overwhelmed by interacting with the healthcare system. In her case, she just needed some reassurance about access/costs and some help scheduling. Anyways, there are many others out there like them. What seems like a no-brainer to many of us can often be more complex decision/task for many everyday people. And many of them are right there...just one non-judgmental conversation or helping ha f away from being nudged in the right direction.