4 ms·

I think the difference (and what makes Japanese harder in this case) is that you can't stumble into the correct number suffix for a large number of mundane noun

by lhorie 5y ago

I think the difference (and what makes Japanese harder in this case) is that you can't stumble into the correct number suffix for a large number of mundane nouns. For example, "12 bottles of wine" uses words that are used in other contexts ("bottles", "wine"), so if you mash these English words together, you get a proper sentence that doesn't sound weird. This is because you have to use "bottles" to provide context. In Japanese, you have to know about the rule even to say "botoru wa ippon" ("one bottle"); "botoru wa ichi" stands out as broken Japanese as much as saying "me likes". There's nothing context-wise that suggests one is supposed to suffix "hon/pon" (lit. "Book") when you're counting carrots, while tomatoes are counted with "hitotsu, futatsu". The rule for flat things is to suffix "mai", but while postcards are "ichimai, nimai", magazines are "hitotsu, futatsu" and pamphlets are "isatsu, nisatsu". Having to remember these seemingly arbitrary rules as a Japanese learner is often considered a bewildering experience.

glandium 5y ago
Nitpicks follow. Tomatoes are counted in 個 (ko). The counter 本 for carrots and other things does not mean book in that context. The character just also means book, but has other meanings. Both magazines and pamphlets are counted in 冊(satsu) or 部(bu).
greggman3 5y ago
I agree there are more counters in Japanese. I'm just pointing out the concept exists in English. Another example is "I have 6 pairs of pants and 7 pairs of socks" is the same in Japanese. 足 as a counter means pair so "靴下７足" is 7 pairs of socks (14 individual socks). You wouldn't say "I have 14 socks" in English. You say "I have 7 pairs of socks". IIRC 冊＝ bindings (very similar to the concept of pairs of socks, we have bindings of paper). So you count "sheets of paper" (枚）and "bindings of books" (冊）. All I'm saying is there are lots of place in English were without a counting unit it's often awkward or ungrammatical. I agree it takes take some getting used to all the counters though and even Japanese have trouble with it as there's a game you play where you call out a thing and the next per says that thing +1 +the counter. Example player 1: "Apple", Player 2 "apple ik-ko. banana", Player 3 "banana nip-pon. car", Player 4 "car yon dai. house", Player 5: "House go-ken" Player 5 might have just gotten that wrong and then everyone would laugh.

by lhorie 5y ago

glandium 5y ago

Nitpicks follow. Tomatoes are counted in 個 (ko). The counter 本 for carrots and other things does not mean book in that context. The character just also means book, but has other meanings. Both magazines and pamphlets are counted in 冊(satsu) or 部(bu).

greggman3 5y ago

I agree there are more counters in Japanese. I'm just pointing out the concept exists in English. Another example is "I have 6 pairs of pants and 7 pairs of socks" is the same in Japanese. 足 as a counter means pair so "靴下７足" is 7 pairs of socks (14 individual socks). You wouldn't say "I have 14 socks" in English. You say "I have 7 pairs of socks". IIRC 冊＝ bindings (very similar to the concept of pairs of socks, we have bindings of paper). So you count "sheets of paper" (枚）and "bindings of books" (冊）. All I'm saying is there are lots of place in English were without a counting unit it's often awkward or ungrammatical. I agree it takes take some getting used to all the counters though and even Japanese have trouble with it as there's a game you play where you call out a thing and the next per says that thing +1 +the counter. Example player 1: "Apple", Player 2 "apple ik-ko. banana", Player 3 "banana nip-pon. car", Player 4 "car yon dai. house", Player 5: "House go-ken" Player 5 might have just gotten that wrong and then everyone would laugh.