4 ms·

> Longevity: since I would be putting in a lot of work, I wanted to be able to expand and maintain the site for at least 5-10 years without major overhaul (but,

> Longevity: since I would be putting in a lot of work, I wanted to be able to expand and maintain the site for at least 5-10 years without major overhaul (but, technology being what it is, I was aware I would probably have to perform some maintenance work onhttps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27173728ce https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27173728ce every 3 years or so). With that criteria, I wonder about the choice of Jekyll, which is huge and complicated. I'd be looking for something with fewer moving parts. I suppose one nice thing is by that limiting yourself to static html output it becomes easier to switch from one generator to another.

mkosmul 5y ago
Yes - with all contents stored in nice Markdown-formatted files, switching to an alternative site generator should be relatively easy.
- temp8964 5y ago
  Should be, but all the customizations (themes, logics) will not transfer.
temp8964 5y ago
Exactly for longevity (5, 10, 15 years), I will not use any static site generator. I know it sounds ridiculous, but I have better confidence of longevity on Wordpress / Mediawiki than static site generators.
- mjthompson 5y ago
  A static site generator that works now will probably still work in 10 years, even if updates cease. And it will be safe to use. After all, it just churns out HTML that you put somewhere. The same can't be said of WordPress or MediaWiki. You will not be able to run these at all if they become unsupported and will have to migrate, or risk facing security issues. Sure, SSGs are not for everyone, but the potential for deprecation isn't a major issue, at least for a personal site.
  - simion314 5y ago
    I pay for hosting and Wordpress, is super cheap, I wrote soem blog posts in 2-13 then got bored, the site is still up and is up to date, with no effort from me, no code or sysadmining about. If I need I can start blogging again tomorrow from a browser or I could get a fancy app but if you used some non-standard thing you need to keep admining it, and if you maybe stopped like me for 8 years when you get back you probably forgot all the details about what stuff you used. If for some reason all those companies selling and supporting Wordpress would not be allowed to continue using it by magic I am sure they are capable enough to migrate it for me. My only experience with Wordpress is with a simple blog and not complex sales pages or other stuff that require using SEO/sales/magic plugins. Worst case scenario if you are a developer you can dump the wordpress database into a file then write a script and generate plain html files or migrate to some other format.
    - temp8964 5y ago
      Wordpress has export function. I am almost 100% sure, if Wordpress dies its replacement will be able to import Wordpress exports, or even its database.
  - shaicoleman 5y ago
    I've recently upgraded a MediaWiki website (colemak.com) to the latest version from version 1.5.3 (released Dec/2005). Besides a few minor configuration updates, it worked almost out of the box after the upgrade on a new server.
    - temp8964 5y ago
      Thanks! Really good to know. I have being struggling with choosing between Wordpress and MediaWiki for a side project.
    - mjthompson 5y ago
      https://www.cvedetails.com/product/4125/Mediawiki-Mediawiki.html?vendor_id=2360 https://www.cvedetails.com/product/4125/Mediawiki-Mediawiki....
- nojito 5y ago
  Jekyll is almost as old as Wordpress. 2003 vs 2008
  - temp8964 5y ago
    I have never used Jekyll, so I Googled jekyll backward compatibility and I found several breaking changes. Also I realized another issue with SSG, the setup is on the desktop, not on the server. I have problems with this too.
- ValentineC 5y ago
  WordPress's core APIs might be very well-supported, but most of their plugin ecosystem doesn't have such guarantees. I recently tried to revive a 2014 backup of my local hackerspace's website so that I could staticize it, but it wouldn't look right even with the same PHP and MySQL versions, because many of the plugins stopped working. I think I would have been better off scraping a copy of the site from Archive.org.
  - temp8964 5y ago
    Yes. Many plugs will retire, but most mainstream plugins should work or easy to find replacement. A personal website / blog without too many customizations should be easy to revive.
- actuallyalys 5y ago
  None of the popular static site generators match Wordpress or Mediawiki for how long they've been around. Although for me personally, the established ones are old and popular enough. E.g., I use Pelican, which has been around since 2010.
axegon_ 5y ago
I've always adored the idea of personal sites which do not require any build systems or databases, or in other words static sites. On multiple occasions over the years I've had the ambition to start working on my own and maintain it, hence the reason I created(shameless advertising, I know) https://rorigami.site/ https://rorigami.site/ But really my main motivation was to have something that's self-contained and does not require any maintenance whatsoever. Ironically every time I decide to make improvements or use it, something urgent immediately pops up... Oh well...
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
nucleardog 5y ago
A similar worry has led me to use the PHP-based PicoCMS. Basically a thin glue between Twig templating and markdown with minimal dependencies. Even if it goes totally abandonware, PHP tends to pretty carefully manage backward compatibility and it should continue to function for quite a long time, and much longer with minimal patching. No major infra dependencies (database, pipelines, serverless…) or special config requirements. Throw it at any bog standard host with no config and it will just go. Like… `pkg install nginx php-fpm php-mbstring` and drop it in your web root and it’s working kinda simple. And, worst case… it’s Twig and Markdown. There are a dozen other things I could migrate that to without much hassle. Because, yeah, something with as many moving parts as Jekyll sounds a little heavy and complicated for “a decade of longevity with minimal support”.

mkosmul 5y ago

Yes - with all contents stored in nice Markdown-formatted files, switching to an alternative site generator should be relatively easy.

temp8964 5y ago
Should be, but all the customizations (themes, logics) will not transfer.

temp8964 5y ago

Exactly for longevity (5, 10, 15 years), I will not use any static site generator. I know it sounds ridiculous, but I have better confidence of longevity on Wordpress / Mediawiki than static site generators.

mjthompson 5y ago
A static site generator that works now will probably still work in 10 years, even if updates cease. And it will be safe to use. After all, it just churns out HTML that you put somewhere. The same can't be said of WordPress or MediaWiki. You will not be able to run these at all if they become unsupported and will have to migrate, or risk facing security issues. Sure, SSGs are not for everyone, but the potential for deprecation isn't a major issue, at least for a personal site.
- simion314 5y ago
  I pay for hosting and Wordpress, is super cheap, I wrote soem blog posts in 2-13 then got bored, the site is still up and is up to date, with no effort from me, no code or sysadmining about. If I need I can start blogging again tomorrow from a browser or I could get a fancy app but if you used some non-standard thing you need to keep admining it, and if you maybe stopped like me for 8 years when you get back you probably forgot all the details about what stuff you used. If for some reason all those companies selling and supporting Wordpress would not be allowed to continue using it by magic I am sure they are capable enough to migrate it for me. My only experience with Wordpress is with a simple blog and not complex sales pages or other stuff that require using SEO/sales/magic plugins. Worst case scenario if you are a developer you can dump the wordpress database into a file then write a script and generate plain html files or migrate to some other format.
  - temp8964 5y ago
    Wordpress has export function. I am almost 100% sure, if Wordpress dies its replacement will be able to import Wordpress exports, or even its database.
- shaicoleman 5y ago
  I've recently upgraded a MediaWiki website (colemak.com) to the latest version from version 1.5.3 (released Dec/2005). Besides a few minor configuration updates, it worked almost out of the box after the upgrade on a new server.
  - temp8964 5y ago
    Thanks! Really good to know. I have being struggling with choosing between Wordpress and MediaWiki for a side project.
  - mjthompson 5y ago
    https://www.cvedetails.com/product/4125/Mediawiki-Mediawiki.html?vendor_id=2360 https://www.cvedetails.com/product/4125/Mediawiki-Mediawiki....
nojito 5y ago
Jekyll is almost as old as Wordpress. 2003 vs 2008
- temp8964 5y ago
  I have never used Jekyll, so I Googled jekyll backward compatibility and I found several breaking changes. Also I realized another issue with SSG, the setup is on the desktop, not on the server. I have problems with this too.
ValentineC 5y ago
WordPress's core APIs might be very well-supported, but most of their plugin ecosystem doesn't have such guarantees. I recently tried to revive a 2014 backup of my local hackerspace's website so that I could staticize it, but it wouldn't look right even with the same PHP and MySQL versions, because many of the plugins stopped working. I think I would have been better off scraping a copy of the site from Archive.org.
- temp8964 5y ago
  Yes. Many plugs will retire, but most mainstream plugins should work or easy to find replacement. A personal website / blog without too many customizations should be easy to revive.
actuallyalys 5y ago
None of the popular static site generators match Wordpress or Mediawiki for how long they've been around. Although for me personally, the established ones are old and popular enough. E.g., I use Pelican, which has been around since 2010.

axegon_ 5y ago

I've always adored the idea of personal sites which do not require any build systems or databases, or in other words static sites. On multiple occasions over the years I've had the ambition to start working on my own and maintain it, hence the reason I created(shameless advertising, I know) https://rorigami.site/ https://rorigami.site/ But really my main motivation was to have something that's self-contained and does not require any maintenance whatsoever. Ironically every time I decide to make improvements or use it, something urgent immediately pops up... Oh well...

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

nucleardog 5y ago

A similar worry has led me to use the PHP-based PicoCMS. Basically a thin glue between Twig templating and markdown with minimal dependencies. Even if it goes totally abandonware, PHP tends to pretty carefully manage backward compatibility and it should continue to function for quite a long time, and much longer with minimal patching. No major infra dependencies (database, pipelines, serverless…) or special config requirements. Throw it at any bog standard host with no config and it will just go. Like… `pkg install nginx php-fpm php-mbstring` and drop it in your web root and it’s working kinda simple. And, worst case… it’s Twig and Markdown. There are a dozen other things I could migrate that to without much hassle. Because, yeah, something with as many moving parts as Jekyll sounds a little heavy and complicated for “a decade of longevity with minimal support”.