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> All languages are easy to learn if you have to learn them Learning a language is definitely not easy and claiming that learning different languages is same l

> All languages are easy to learn if you have to learn them Learning a language is definitely not easy and claiming that learning different languages is same level of effort is outright ridiculous. It’s not to say that one language itself is harder or easier compared to another, it’s a matter of it being different from the one you speak already. > Or all the evidence is baseless speculation that relies on assuming Sapir-Worf I would totally blame Sapir-Worf for all the articles I consistently omit or mixup when writing in English. Something being definite or indefinite is just not a category that I use when thinking about things and it’s existence still makes almost zero sense after more than a decade of practicing languages that have it.

aerovistae 5y ago
Which language are you coming from? Vaguely wondering if I can find a way to concisely frame definite/indefinite in a way that makes its utility to English speakers seem less puzzling. Edit: oh, Russian? Just wondering. Seen this come up a ton of times with Russian-speakers. For whatever reason it's an especially alien thing coming from that particular language. Anyway, definite / indefinite is helpful for clarifying whether we're referring to a specific item or a generic item (i.e. any instance of that type of item, doesn't matter which one.) Hmm, now that I think about it, it seems implicitly clear to me and that limits my ability to creatively explain its utility. Maybe I should turn this around instead-- could you help me understand why that isn't a way of categorizing things that's employed by Russian-speakers? Why don't you need to make that distinction?
- tenebrisalietum 5y ago
  > Vaguely wondering if I can find a way to concisely frame definite/indefinite in a way that makes its utility to English speakers seem less puzzling. First, it must be understood that English really many nouns tagged with a determiner; which can be articles (the X, a/an X), possessive or demonstrative "pronouns" (his/her X, this/that X, etc.), or others. (The nouns English doesn't want tagged are proper nouns, or nouns that talk about a type of X rather than an instance of X). The X means that the question "which X?" is possible/relevant, and that the speaker/writer expects the listener/reader to know/care the answer to "which X?". A/an X means that the question "which X?" is possible/relevant, and that the speaker/writer does not expect the listener/reader to know/care about the answer to "which X?". It's important to understand that whether to use the versus a/an is controlled completely by the point of view and understanding of the speaker/writer. If the speaker/writer is setting an expectation the listener/reader can't meet, that's a sign to ask questions, pretend you know, or remember and wait until later for clarification. I know Russian doesn't have articles but I'm not sure why they're "needed" in English versus Russian.
- Muromec 5y ago
  > oh, Russian? Just wondering Close enough — Ukrainian. In fact most languages on this planet don’t have articles. > Why don't you need to make that distinction? Because you just ydon’t, it’s perfectly clear from context most of time or even completely irrelevant. When you actually mean to make this distinction, you just add this/that/my/your or some/any/whatever, refer to specific object by name or any other way. > … in a way that makes its utility to English speakers seem less puzzling I mean I understand the thing, it encodes another redundant bit of information, which I just don’t have when I’m thinking about something.
HDMI_Cable 5y ago
It really depends. If you spend time in a country, only speaking in its language and reading newspapers in it, you could learn a language in like 3 months. This is especially true if you know another language and already have the mental model for learning them.
slibhb 5y ago
Believe me, native English speakers do not think about the definite-ness of a word. We just knows that "the" comes before some things and not others and it sounds odd when someone gets it wrong. My argument is that these differences are cosmetic, not that they don't exist. Also, Sapir-Worf is not at all referring to minor grammatical issues of this kind.

aerovistae 5y ago

Which language are you coming from? Vaguely wondering if I can find a way to concisely frame definite/indefinite in a way that makes its utility to English speakers seem less puzzling. Edit: oh, Russian? Just wondering. Seen this come up a ton of times with Russian-speakers. For whatever reason it's an especially alien thing coming from that particular language. Anyway, definite / indefinite is helpful for clarifying whether we're referring to a specific item or a generic item (i.e. any instance of that type of item, doesn't matter which one.) Hmm, now that I think about it, it seems implicitly clear to me and that limits my ability to creatively explain its utility. Maybe I should turn this around instead-- could you help me understand why that isn't a way of categorizing things that's employed by Russian-speakers? Why don't you need to make that distinction?

tenebrisalietum 5y ago
> Vaguely wondering if I can find a way to concisely frame definite/indefinite in a way that makes its utility to English speakers seem less puzzling. First, it must be understood that English really many nouns tagged with a determiner; which can be articles (the X, a/an X), possessive or demonstrative "pronouns" (his/her X, this/that X, etc.), or others. (The nouns English doesn't want tagged are proper nouns, or nouns that talk about a type of X rather than an instance of X). The X means that the question "which X?" is possible/relevant, and that the speaker/writer expects the listener/reader to know/care the answer to "which X?". A/an X means that the question "which X?" is possible/relevant, and that the speaker/writer does not expect the listener/reader to know/care about the answer to "which X?". It's important to understand that whether to use the versus a/an is controlled completely by the point of view and understanding of the speaker/writer. If the speaker/writer is setting an expectation the listener/reader can't meet, that's a sign to ask questions, pretend you know, or remember and wait until later for clarification. I know Russian doesn't have articles but I'm not sure why they're "needed" in English versus Russian.
Muromec 5y ago
> oh, Russian? Just wondering Close enough — Ukrainian. In fact most languages on this planet don’t have articles. > Why don't you need to make that distinction? Because you just ydon’t, it’s perfectly clear from context most of time or even completely irrelevant. When you actually mean to make this distinction, you just add this/that/my/your or some/any/whatever, refer to specific object by name or any other way. > … in a way that makes its utility to English speakers seem less puzzling I mean I understand the thing, it encodes another redundant bit of information, which I just don’t have when I’m thinking about something.

HDMI_Cable 5y ago

It really depends. If you spend time in a country, only speaking in its language and reading newspapers in it, you could learn a language in like 3 months. This is especially true if you know another language and already have the mental model for learning them.

slibhb 5y ago

Believe me, native English speakers do not think about the definite-ness of a word. We just knows that "the" comes before some things and not others and it sounds odd when someone gets it wrong. My argument is that these differences are cosmetic, not that they don't exist. Also, Sapir-Worf is not at all referring to minor grammatical issues of this kind.