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> Surely "opt-in" destroys any validity the data would have (self selected groups are usually a poor proxy for typical users) Is there actually any data to bac
by worble 5y ago
> Surely "opt-in" destroys any validity the data would have (self selected groups are usually a poor proxy for typical users)
Is there actually any data to back this up? Personally I see no reason why an opted-in group would be using an application that differently from the masses - your hot paths are still hot paths, common errors and annoyances will still be triggered. Really the only major thing I see that could be different is that a certain hard to find feature might be used more than it would otherwise.
But disregarding that, the argument is not "opt-in" vs "opt-out". Opt-out is not be on the table at all - silently collecting information from users without their consent or any affirmative action on their part is immoral, and damages user trust. So when you take that into account, the options are opt-in data vs no data whatsoever, and opt-in, taking into account any potential bias you think this data might have, is still more infinitely useful then getting nothing whatsoever.
- andybak 5y agoPutting discussions of deanonymization to one side for a second - how is collecting aggregate usage patterns "immoral"? If your issue is about the potential for deanonymization then that's understandable but that's a discussion where we would need to talk about specifics.
- inetknght 5y ago> how is collecting aggregate usage patterns "immoral"? What I do alone in my own home should be known only to me. Do I read books? It doesn't matter if I do nor what books. Do I listen to music? It doesn't matter if I do nor what songs. Do I watch tv? It doesn't matter if I do nor what videos. Do I sleep? It doesn't matter if I do nor for how long. Do I play games? It doesn't matter if I do nor which games. Do I use a computer? It doesn't matter if I do nor what software. What I do in my own home is private. Anyone looking at that without my explicit consent is violating my privacy. Usage patterns of what I do in my own home are immoral whether in aggregate or not.
- andybak 5y agoNobody is talking about what books you read. We're talking about "What percentage of users clicked this button or used this audio filter?".
- inetknght 5y agoNo, you missed the point. Do I click buttons in my own home? It doesn't matter if I do or which ones. Recording what buttons I press is a violation of my privacy.
- andybak 5y agoYou're entitled to think that and I'm entitled to think that at this point your opinion is unreasonable and slightly silly.
- jefftk 5y agoIs it immoral for utility companies to compute aggregate statistics about how much power/water/gas their customers are using?
- HelloNurse 5y agoUtility companies can collect truly aggregate statistics over an ensemble of users from realtime measurement of electric loads and water and gas flow through their pipes or over time from each user's meter (provided it actually records only total consumption, not events). Software doesn't have this luxury.
- pessimizer 5y agoThose are streaming services, not applications, and they can't be made into applications.