5 ms·

Yeah, because it's not like this exact thing has happened repeatedly since the emergence of capitalism.

creato 5y ago
The same thing happens in nature too (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotka%E2%80%93Volterra_equations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotka%E2%80%93Volterra_equatio...). Capitalism isn't the cause of everything you don't like.
- mempko 5y ago
  Let's replace that phrase with past economic systems. 'The same thing happens in nature too. Feudalism isn't the cause of everything you don't like'. or how about 'The same thing happens in nature too. Slavery isn't the cause of everything you don't like'. Yet we clearly made progress getting rid of feudalism and slavery.
monsecchris 5y ago
We should let the government decide how many chips we need, they really outdid themselves on toilet paper last time.
- vkou 5y ago
  Have we all already forgotten how the free market has failed to provide us with sufficient toilet paper through the spring of 2020?
  - monsecchris 5y ago
    Luckily the socialist utopias didn't have any toilet paper to begin with.
- elygre 5y ago
  Where are you located, with a government that managed toilet paper output and availability?
  - 0-_-0 5y ago
    To be fair, toilet paper shortages in planned economies were definitely a thing. My grandmother stockpiled toilet paper way after the fall of communism, I never understood why as a kid. (Her habit would have come handy at the start of the pandemic though...)
    - baybal2 5y ago
      Month long toilet paper outages were a reality of life in USSR. Though, fresh pronts of "Pravda" never were. That "Pravda" was a very versatile material: from toilet paper, to packaging material, to building material as packing for cracks in walls, to an underlayer for wallpaper.
- berkes 5y ago
  Such comments annoy me. I'm quite radical capitalist (European, though). But any time someone points out flaws in capitalism, people respond with 'but socialism is worse' or 'planned markets are bad too'. A false dichotomy as clear as you get. Capitalism has known flaws. That we should name, know and solve. A famous flaw is the pork cycle, which we see at work here. Pointing out such flaws is good, because it allows us to improve, or at least prepare for. Countering such statements with 'but communism is worse' helps noone.
  - nicoburns 5y ago
    Yes, exactly! It's such a failure of imagination to think that the economic systems we've tried so far are the only ones available. For me the biggest flaw in capitalism is that it tends to concentrate wealth over the long term, which in turn undermines the "wisdom of the crowd" principle market systems are based on by concentrating buying power in relatively few people. We could fix this with much more aggressive progressive taxation and still have a system that is fundementally market based and looks nothing like a planned economy.
    - berkes 5y ago
      > For me the biggest flaw in capitalism is that it tends to concentrate wealth over the long term, which in turn undermines the "wisdom of the crowd" principle market systems are based on by concentrating buying power in relatively few people. Indeed! Related, my pet-peeve, is that consolidation eventually leads to monopolisation: concentrating selling power to relatively few companies. The current growth model of most tech-companies hinges on the monopolisation almost entirely. Free markets have organisations and systems in place to protect against that; which clearly shows that a free market -in its current state- cannot operate effectively without outside intervention. These orgs are only now moving against the 20-th century monopolies, and doing so too late and too little (IMHO). But, another clear flaw in capitalism and free markets, patched with centralised, planned governments intervening in those markets.
  - kingsuper20 5y ago
    > But any time someone points out flaws in capitalism, I've become unsatisfied with all of the word salad concerning 'capitalism'. Large organizations tend to work in the same way, government potentially being the largest corporation of all. Communist countries had organizations largely indistinguishable from corporations although the elite might find different ways to pay itself. It's really all a matter of degree. The eternal fight for resources and status (and hot chicks) gives you convergent evolution in social systems.
- toiletfuneral 5y ago
  We’re literally in a thread discussing chip shortages resulting from capitalism’s poor ability to manage the resource and now governments are the ones investing in solving it. I’m so confused by the point you’re trying to make.

The same thing happens in nature too (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotka%E2%80%93Volterra_equations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotka%E2%80%93Volterra_equatio...). Capitalism isn't the cause of everything you don't like.

mempko 5y ago
Let's replace that phrase with past economic systems. 'The same thing happens in nature too. Feudalism isn't the cause of everything you don't like'. or how about 'The same thing happens in nature too. Slavery isn't the cause of everything you don't like'. Yet we clearly made progress getting rid of feudalism and slavery.

monsecchris 5y ago

We should let the government decide how many chips we need, they really outdid themselves on toilet paper last time.

vkou 5y ago
Have we all already forgotten how the free market has failed to provide us with sufficient toilet paper through the spring of 2020?
- monsecchris 5y ago
  Luckily the socialist utopias didn't have any toilet paper to begin with.
elygre 5y ago
Where are you located, with a government that managed toilet paper output and availability?
- 0-_-0 5y ago
  To be fair, toilet paper shortages in planned economies were definitely a thing. My grandmother stockpiled toilet paper way after the fall of communism, I never understood why as a kid. (Her habit would have come handy at the start of the pandemic though...)
  - baybal2 5y ago
    Month long toilet paper outages were a reality of life in USSR. Though, fresh pronts of "Pravda" never were. That "Pravda" was a very versatile material: from toilet paper, to packaging material, to building material as packing for cracks in walls, to an underlayer for wallpaper.
berkes 5y ago
Such comments annoy me. I'm quite radical capitalist (European, though). But any time someone points out flaws in capitalism, people respond with 'but socialism is worse' or 'planned markets are bad too'. A false dichotomy as clear as you get. Capitalism has known flaws. That we should name, know and solve. A famous flaw is the pork cycle, which we see at work here. Pointing out such flaws is good, because it allows us to improve, or at least prepare for. Countering such statements with 'but communism is worse' helps noone.
- nicoburns 5y ago
  Yes, exactly! It's such a failure of imagination to think that the economic systems we've tried so far are the only ones available. For me the biggest flaw in capitalism is that it tends to concentrate wealth over the long term, which in turn undermines the "wisdom of the crowd" principle market systems are based on by concentrating buying power in relatively few people. We could fix this with much more aggressive progressive taxation and still have a system that is fundementally market based and looks nothing like a planned economy.
  - berkes 5y ago
    > For me the biggest flaw in capitalism is that it tends to concentrate wealth over the long term, which in turn undermines the "wisdom of the crowd" principle market systems are based on by concentrating buying power in relatively few people. Indeed! Related, my pet-peeve, is that consolidation eventually leads to monopolisation: concentrating selling power to relatively few companies. The current growth model of most tech-companies hinges on the monopolisation almost entirely. Free markets have organisations and systems in place to protect against that; which clearly shows that a free market -in its current state- cannot operate effectively without outside intervention. These orgs are only now moving against the 20-th century monopolies, and doing so too late and too little (IMHO). But, another clear flaw in capitalism and free markets, patched with centralised, planned governments intervening in those markets.
- kingsuper20 5y ago
  > But any time someone points out flaws in capitalism, I've become unsatisfied with all of the word salad concerning 'capitalism'. Large organizations tend to work in the same way, government potentially being the largest corporation of all. Communist countries had organizations largely indistinguishable from corporations although the elite might find different ways to pay itself. It's really all a matter of degree. The eternal fight for resources and status (and hot chicks) gives you convergent evolution in social systems.
toiletfuneral 5y ago
We’re literally in a thread discussing chip shortages resulting from capitalism’s poor ability to manage the resource and now governments are the ones investing in solving it. I’m so confused by the point you’re trying to make.