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Why do you think traffic lights are better? I like not having to wait on a red for an empty street or have to stop for stop signs at intersections. They are bet

Why do you think traffic lights are better? I like not having to wait on a red for an empty street or have to stop for stop signs at intersections. They are better and safer in every way and stats back that up (not to mention better for the environment and your car maintenance bills) https://youtu.be/AqcyRxZJCXc https://youtu.be/AqcyRxZJCXc

toast0 5y ago
> I like not having to wait on a red for an empty street or have to stop for stop signs at intersections. Me too; but traffic signals are more than capable of detecting empty streets and oncoming traffic and changing lights to green before you get to the intersection. > They are better and safer in every way and stats back that up (not to mention better for the environment and your car maintenance bills) Traffic circles are tolerable with low traffic, but when traffic increases, especially if the traffic is asymmetric, it's possible for some directions to be blocked for a long time, and there's no fairness mechanism. Because speeds in traffic circles are slower than in signaled intersections with a green, it takes longer for the backlog to clear the intersection. And, while there's still throughput when one entrance dominates and blocks other entrances, if one exit is blocked, it can block the whole intersection and there's zero throughput; in a signaled intersection, other exits can usually still be used even if one is jammed. Slowing for a roundabout when I wouldn't need to slow for a traffic signal that would likely turn green for me is bad for the environment. Extra miles driven from longer paths, and wear on tires from taking a circular path instead of a straight path is bad for the environment and my maintenance bills. They use more space than a signaled intersection, and may displace trees or impact waterways and drainage. It's hard to look for pedestrians crossing from the right while also looking for a space in traffic from the left. Navigating them on bicycles can be tricky too, as there are a lot of crossovers.
- angry_octet 5y ago
  Frankly, you can't have driven in places that use roundabouts much, because in practice these are not problems. Asymmetric flow isn't a problem if there are occasional vehicles which force the dominant flow to give way. In rare situations it is beneficial to put a traffic light on the dominant flow entrance to break it up. Blocked exits are rarely a problem for other exits on multilane roundabouts, and rarely more of a problem that blocking the box on an intersection with lights -- it's all about the attitude of drivers. "Wear in tired from taking a circular path" -- is this supposed to be satire?
  - toast0 5y ago
    > Frankly, you can't have driven in places that use roundabouts much, because in practice these are not problems. Asymmetric flow isn't a problem if there are occasional vehicles which force the dominant flow to give way. It may not be 'a problem', but it does add delay, and it ruins the narrative of better in all conditions. And it happens fairly frequently at the circle I transit most often. There's a car ferry, and when people drive off of that and eventually through this circle, there are directions they don't want to go, and if you're coming from one of those, you just have to sit and wait. And you wait much longer than a light would have you wait, and it takes the people coming from the ferry longer too. > "Wear in tired from taking a circular path" -- is this supposed to be satire? It's minimal, but so is the brake wear people point out as a benefit of doing something better than a 4-way stop.
- katbyte 5y ago
  Roundabouts just work with no power or fancy electronics. Those cost money to maintain and install as well as don’t handle a few cars coming from each direction without impeding one. Slowing down and making a slight turn does not compare to the fuel and maintenance cost coming to a full stop and getting the cars mass moving again. And regardless of it being “hard” to see pedestrians the statistics back up them being far safer: you have to be an active participant and look rather then “green means go” and not pay attention. I suggest watching that video I linked. I’ve driven in a number of countries and the ones with more traffic circles were always more enjoyable + easier as well as subjectivity had better drivers

toast0 5y ago

> I like not having to wait on a red for an empty street or have to stop for stop signs at intersections. Me too; but traffic signals are more than capable of detecting empty streets and oncoming traffic and changing lights to green before you get to the intersection. > They are better and safer in every way and stats back that up (not to mention better for the environment and your car maintenance bills) Traffic circles are tolerable with low traffic, but when traffic increases, especially if the traffic is asymmetric, it's possible for some directions to be blocked for a long time, and there's no fairness mechanism. Because speeds in traffic circles are slower than in signaled intersections with a green, it takes longer for the backlog to clear the intersection. And, while there's still throughput when one entrance dominates and blocks other entrances, if one exit is blocked, it can block the whole intersection and there's zero throughput; in a signaled intersection, other exits can usually still be used even if one is jammed. Slowing for a roundabout when I wouldn't need to slow for a traffic signal that would likely turn green for me is bad for the environment. Extra miles driven from longer paths, and wear on tires from taking a circular path instead of a straight path is bad for the environment and my maintenance bills. They use more space than a signaled intersection, and may displace trees or impact waterways and drainage. It's hard to look for pedestrians crossing from the right while also looking for a space in traffic from the left. Navigating them on bicycles can be tricky too, as there are a lot of crossovers.

angry_octet 5y ago
Frankly, you can't have driven in places that use roundabouts much, because in practice these are not problems. Asymmetric flow isn't a problem if there are occasional vehicles which force the dominant flow to give way. In rare situations it is beneficial to put a traffic light on the dominant flow entrance to break it up. Blocked exits are rarely a problem for other exits on multilane roundabouts, and rarely more of a problem that blocking the box on an intersection with lights -- it's all about the attitude of drivers. "Wear in tired from taking a circular path" -- is this supposed to be satire?
- toast0 5y ago
  > Frankly, you can't have driven in places that use roundabouts much, because in practice these are not problems. Asymmetric flow isn't a problem if there are occasional vehicles which force the dominant flow to give way. It may not be 'a problem', but it does add delay, and it ruins the narrative of better in all conditions. And it happens fairly frequently at the circle I transit most often. There's a car ferry, and when people drive off of that and eventually through this circle, there are directions they don't want to go, and if you're coming from one of those, you just have to sit and wait. And you wait much longer than a light would have you wait, and it takes the people coming from the ferry longer too. > "Wear in tired from taking a circular path" -- is this supposed to be satire? It's minimal, but so is the brake wear people point out as a benefit of doing something better than a 4-way stop.
katbyte 5y ago
Roundabouts just work with no power or fancy electronics. Those cost money to maintain and install as well as don’t handle a few cars coming from each direction without impeding one. Slowing down and making a slight turn does not compare to the fuel and maintenance cost coming to a full stop and getting the cars mass moving again. And regardless of it being “hard” to see pedestrians the statistics back up them being far safer: you have to be an active participant and look rather then “green means go” and not pay attention. I suggest watching that video I linked. I’ve driven in a number of countries and the ones with more traffic circles were always more enjoyable + easier as well as subjectivity had better drivers