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No, your assertion is false. The research on SAT scores and college success show very weak correlations with SAT/ACT scores and college preparedness and succes

No, your assertion is false. The research on SAT scores and college success show very weak correlations with SAT/ACT scores and college preparedness and success. On the positive side it seems to correlate with grades in the first year of college (1). On the negative side there was no correlation between ACT scores and college graduation (2). High school GPAs, on the other hand had a strong correlation with college success. If a metric isn't very effective at measuring what it's supposed, why collectively invest billions of dollars and hours in that metric? Just because I had to waste my time with the SAT doesn't mean we have to force that onto kids today. 1) https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/sats/test/what.html#:~:text=The%20SAT%20has%20been%20found,student%20will%20do%20in%20college https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/sats/test/wha.... 2) https://news.uchicago.edu/story/test-scores-dont-stack-gpas-predicting-college-success https://news.uchicago.edu/story/test-scores-dont-stack-gpas-...

xyzzyz 5y ago
There were hundreds of studies done on this issue, please don’t be a science denialist. You can put “sat predictive validity” in Google Scholar to see them all. For a summary, see https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/educators/higher-ed/test-validity-design/validity-studies https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/educators/higher-e... > Results show that: > SAT scores are strongly predictive of college performance—students with higher SAT scores are more likely to have higher grades in college. SAT scores are predictive of student retention to their second year—students with higher SAT scores are more likely to return for their sophomore year. > SAT scores and HSGPA are both related to academic performance in college but tend to measure slightly different aspects of academic preparation. Using SAT scores in conjunction with HSGPA is the most powerful way to predict future academic performance. > On average, SAT scores add 15% more predictive power above grades alone for understanding how students will perform in college. > SAT scores help to further differentiate student performance in college within narrow HSGPA ranges.
- MyHypatia 5y ago
  I find it ironic that you call me a "science denialist" when 1) There is plenty of research to support my argument (and I cited it), and 2) To be fair I gave both positive and negative examples (to show that there is some support of correlation but that it is overall weak). In contrast, you 1) Declare anything that disagrees with you as "simply false" despite the evidence, 2) Lash out and declare me a "science denialist", and 3) To prove your point you link to the College Board, which is the company that MAKES MONEY off of the SAT test. That's like telling someone that Crest toothpaste is the best, because the Crest website said they did a study showing their toothpaste is the best, and that is science.
  - xyzzyz 5y ago
    > 1) There is plenty of research to support my argument (and I cited it) No, there is very little. As I said, put "sat predictive validity" in Google Scholar and see for yourself. Overwhelming consensus in the field is that the SAT is one of the best predictors of college success, alongside GPA and IQ. You cited something, but it doesn't change the scientific consensus: you can find papers published in 2021 arguing that humans have nothing to do with global warming, but the consensus is nevertheless clear. I can give you 10 citations for every one you provide, each of which will be a better designed study than you give, but you could also just put "sat predictive validity" in Google Scholar to see them. > 2) Lash out and declare me a "science denialist" That's because you're saying blatant untruths about the state of the science. As I said, there have been literally thousands of papers on this topic, and the conclusion is crystal clear. > 3) To prove your point you link to the College Board, which is the company that MAKES MONEY off of the SAT test. College Board is not a company, but in fact a non-profit. I linked it, because it is a good summary of the state of the research. I also told you where to find the actual studies, but you'll find that it is the College Board that's making the biggest and best studies on this topic, as they're obviously very interested in showing their validity. Quality of their research has, as far as I can tell, never been seriously questioned by anyone in the field. If you have any other criticism, feel free to show it, preferably in a form of paper citing College Board studies and showing the scientific misconduct you allege them to perform.
    - 5y ago
MikeUt 5y ago
> On the negative side there was no correlation between ACT scores and college graduation (2) The study you cite does not support that claim. See https://dynomight.net/are-tests-irrelevant/ https://dynomight.net/are-tests-irrelevant/ for a close examination of it.
- MyHypatia 5y ago
  If the study doesn't support the claim, then it should be retracted. I don't think the analysis you linked shows that it should be retracted. It performs a different analysis on the data and the author of it concludes that the original paper overstates its claims. I am going to assume that this criticism is valid. I can similarly counter with a study that criticizes studies that show a positive correlation with SAT and freshman GPA. For example, [1] cited 440 times performs an analysis showing that these positive correlation studies overstate their claims and over-attribute the freshman grade point average to SAT score. I am certain you can counter with another study (google scholar has 300,000+ links on the topic). The point I am making is that the value added of SAT/ACT is unclear and not worth the time and money students spend on it. Instead, they could use SAT II or AP test scores, which are subject tests on useful material, that is already taught in schools. At least then students will spend time studying topics they may actually use in the future (chemistry, biology, US history, calculus, physics, Spanish, etc.). It would show that students can learn material on a particular topic and pass a standardized exam on it (which is most of what college is anyway). I think a large part of why the SAT I is so controversial is because it is testing "broad abilities" and "capacity for future learning" which are definitions that changes over time and it is unclear what that actually means and how useful it is. In contrast, a subject test is clear: Can you learn material on subject X well enough to pass a test on it? If you can, well that's what completing college is like. There are studies that support the use of subject tests (SAT II) over the use of broad psychometric tests (SAT I) [2]. I think that sticking with these "broad intelligence tests" is based more on "well we've done it this way for a long time" than actual utility. [1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0304407603002537 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S03044... [2] https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1207/S15326977EA0801_01 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1207/S15326977EA0801_...

xyzzyz 5y ago

There were hundreds of studies done on this issue, please don’t be a science denialist. You can put “sat predictive validity” in Google Scholar to see them all. For a summary, see https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/educators/higher-ed/test-validity-design/validity-studies https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/educators/higher-e... > Results show that: > SAT scores are strongly predictive of college performance—students with higher SAT scores are more likely to have higher grades in college. SAT scores are predictive of student retention to their second year—students with higher SAT scores are more likely to return for their sophomore year. > SAT scores and HSGPA are both related to academic performance in college but tend to measure slightly different aspects of academic preparation. Using SAT scores in conjunction with HSGPA is the most powerful way to predict future academic performance. > On average, SAT scores add 15% more predictive power above grades alone for understanding how students will perform in college. > SAT scores help to further differentiate student performance in college within narrow HSGPA ranges.

MyHypatia 5y ago
I find it ironic that you call me a "science denialist" when 1) There is plenty of research to support my argument (and I cited it), and 2) To be fair I gave both positive and negative examples (to show that there is some support of correlation but that it is overall weak). In contrast, you 1) Declare anything that disagrees with you as "simply false" despite the evidence, 2) Lash out and declare me a "science denialist", and 3) To prove your point you link to the College Board, which is the company that MAKES MONEY off of the SAT test. That's like telling someone that Crest toothpaste is the best, because the Crest website said they did a study showing their toothpaste is the best, and that is science.
- xyzzyz 5y ago
  > 1) There is plenty of research to support my argument (and I cited it) No, there is very little. As I said, put "sat predictive validity" in Google Scholar and see for yourself. Overwhelming consensus in the field is that the SAT is one of the best predictors of college success, alongside GPA and IQ. You cited something, but it doesn't change the scientific consensus: you can find papers published in 2021 arguing that humans have nothing to do with global warming, but the consensus is nevertheless clear. I can give you 10 citations for every one you provide, each of which will be a better designed study than you give, but you could also just put "sat predictive validity" in Google Scholar to see them. > 2) Lash out and declare me a "science denialist" That's because you're saying blatant untruths about the state of the science. As I said, there have been literally thousands of papers on this topic, and the conclusion is crystal clear. > 3) To prove your point you link to the College Board, which is the company that MAKES MONEY off of the SAT test. College Board is not a company, but in fact a non-profit. I linked it, because it is a good summary of the state of the research. I also told you where to find the actual studies, but you'll find that it is the College Board that's making the biggest and best studies on this topic, as they're obviously very interested in showing their validity. Quality of their research has, as far as I can tell, never been seriously questioned by anyone in the field. If you have any other criticism, feel free to show it, preferably in a form of paper citing College Board studies and showing the scientific misconduct you allege them to perform.
  - 5y ago

MikeUt 5y ago

> On the negative side there was no correlation between ACT scores and college graduation (2) The study you cite does not support that claim. See https://dynomight.net/are-tests-irrelevant/ https://dynomight.net/are-tests-irrelevant/ for a close examination of it.

MyHypatia 5y ago
If the study doesn't support the claim, then it should be retracted. I don't think the analysis you linked shows that it should be retracted. It performs a different analysis on the data and the author of it concludes that the original paper overstates its claims. I am going to assume that this criticism is valid. I can similarly counter with a study that criticizes studies that show a positive correlation with SAT and freshman GPA. For example, [1] cited 440 times performs an analysis showing that these positive correlation studies overstate their claims and over-attribute the freshman grade point average to SAT score. I am certain you can counter with another study (google scholar has 300,000+ links on the topic). The point I am making is that the value added of SAT/ACT is unclear and not worth the time and money students spend on it. Instead, they could use SAT II or AP test scores, which are subject tests on useful material, that is already taught in schools. At least then students will spend time studying topics they may actually use in the future (chemistry, biology, US history, calculus, physics, Spanish, etc.). It would show that students can learn material on a particular topic and pass a standardized exam on it (which is most of what college is anyway). I think a large part of why the SAT I is so controversial is because it is testing "broad abilities" and "capacity for future learning" which are definitions that changes over time and it is unclear what that actually means and how useful it is. In contrast, a subject test is clear: Can you learn material on subject X well enough to pass a test on it? If you can, well that's what completing college is like. There are studies that support the use of subject tests (SAT II) over the use of broad psychometric tests (SAT I) [2]. I think that sticking with these "broad intelligence tests" is based more on "well we've done it this way for a long time" than actual utility. [1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0304407603002537 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S03044... [2] https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1207/S15326977EA0801_01 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1207/S15326977EA0801_...