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I do embedded also, and FPGAs. Do you have any suggestions for how to start learning web stuff? Every time I try, I get overwhelmed by all the frameworks, libra

I do embedded also, and FPGAs. Do you have any suggestions for how to start learning web stuff? Every time I try, I get overwhelmed by all the frameworks, libraries, package managers, build pipelines, etc. There doesn't seem to be a set of best practices for what to do, or even what is needed and what isn't. What is the best way to get started?

ffhhj 5y ago
Don't bother with frameworks, write plain HTML+JS+CSS and use jQuery.
- neycoda 5y ago
  HTML then CSS then JavaScript. I've taught all three and people struggle more in a different order. HTML is the skeletal architecture, CSS is just styling, then JavaScript is behavior. Those three things in that order are like orders of "need". You need HTML first to have a webpage structure, then styling to make it easy to understand its elements, then the behavior is more complex than both. I don't know why I see people put JS learning before CSS... JS is much more complex than CSS, and a much different change in paradigm from HTML than CSS is.
- DrSiemer 5y ago
  What exactly do you still use or need jQuery for?
  - PedroBatista 5y ago
    I like the API.
  - ffhhj 5y ago
    It's mostly a wrapper of JS functions that takes care of compatibility, and makes code more readable.
    - buchanaf 5y ago
      Compatibility isn't really a consideration nowadays.
- atatatat 5y ago
  HTMX anyone?
_pdp_ 5y ago
Do you start learning FPGA programming by studying frameworks? I doubt. Like all other things you start learning the basics and then once you know them you can abstract complexities with frameworks. There is nothing overwhelming about web development. It is trivial.
- lawik 5y ago
  If someone says they get overwhelmed by something, chances are decent there is something overwhelming about it. Web is a large domain of knowledge. It isn't particularly hard in terms of math, algorithms or mysterious unknown proprietary APIs. But there is a lot to figure out. What parts are important, what parts can I skip. If by basics you mean HTML, CSS and JS. Sure. Good start. But you could also start with a framework and learn from the middle and out or the top down. Not everything has to be learned bottom up. Either way. It is not trivial.
  - _pdp_ 5y ago
    > If someone says they get overwhelmed by something, chances are decent there is something overwhelming about it. The numbers speak for themselves. I don't need to convince you. There are more web developers than in any other programming field. So it must have some property that makes it easy to get started or at least some kind of incentive to make people go through the initial hurdle. Anything worth studying is slightly overwhelming at first, but to say that everything continues to be overwhelming once you know the basics is wrong. Knowing a little bit of the grammar and some words will help you understand better Mandarine. Not knowing anything about the language will make it appear as some alien technology. No skill starts growing at the middle. Nobody teaches mathematics by starting with abstract concepts. We don't learn new spoken languages by studying literature from the get-go. So getting the pedagogics right is part of the success.
- rthomas6 5y ago
  Creating a CRUD website is supposed to be pretty fundamental, right? And how do I have individual user sessions with logins that show different content to different users? That seems, if not basic, fundamental to at least know how to do. Should I hand-type static HTML to do this? Is that what modern web developers typically do? Will learning HTML, CSS, and JS teach me how to use a backend? Which backend language should I pick? Should I use a database? Which one? Or should I use AWS? Is all I need HTML, CSS, and JS? PHP, is that a good backend starting point? That seems to be pretty fundamental, since over half of all websites use it. A LAMP stack, right? No? What about Python? Ruby? C? Rust? Arc? Elm? Should I use Node? If so, what is the typical Node setup? Should I use webassembly? That's a fundamental and new browser technology. How do I compress and minify code and images to be served? A makefile, right? That's the typical way to build things in my software world.
reynhaim 5y ago
https://fullstackopen.com/en/ https://fullstackopen.com/en/ This is a good resource that will walk you through the cutting edge web development technologies, starting from the very basics and progressing to the more complex matters in the end. Highly recommended.

ffhhj 5y ago

Don't bother with frameworks, write plain HTML+JS+CSS and use jQuery.

neycoda 5y ago
HTML then CSS then JavaScript. I've taught all three and people struggle more in a different order. HTML is the skeletal architecture, CSS is just styling, then JavaScript is behavior. Those three things in that order are like orders of "need". You need HTML first to have a webpage structure, then styling to make it easy to understand its elements, then the behavior is more complex than both. I don't know why I see people put JS learning before CSS... JS is much more complex than CSS, and a much different change in paradigm from HTML than CSS is.
DrSiemer 5y ago
What exactly do you still use or need jQuery for?
- PedroBatista 5y ago
  I like the API.
- ffhhj 5y ago
  It's mostly a wrapper of JS functions that takes care of compatibility, and makes code more readable.
  - buchanaf 5y ago
    Compatibility isn't really a consideration nowadays.
atatatat 5y ago
HTMX anyone?

_pdp_ 5y ago

Do you start learning FPGA programming by studying frameworks? I doubt. Like all other things you start learning the basics and then once you know them you can abstract complexities with frameworks. There is nothing overwhelming about web development. It is trivial.

lawik 5y ago
If someone says they get overwhelmed by something, chances are decent there is something overwhelming about it. Web is a large domain of knowledge. It isn't particularly hard in terms of math, algorithms or mysterious unknown proprietary APIs. But there is a lot to figure out. What parts are important, what parts can I skip. If by basics you mean HTML, CSS and JS. Sure. Good start. But you could also start with a framework and learn from the middle and out or the top down. Not everything has to be learned bottom up. Either way. It is not trivial.
- _pdp_ 5y ago
  > If someone says they get overwhelmed by something, chances are decent there is something overwhelming about it. The numbers speak for themselves. I don't need to convince you. There are more web developers than in any other programming field. So it must have some property that makes it easy to get started or at least some kind of incentive to make people go through the initial hurdle. Anything worth studying is slightly overwhelming at first, but to say that everything continues to be overwhelming once you know the basics is wrong. Knowing a little bit of the grammar and some words will help you understand better Mandarine. Not knowing anything about the language will make it appear as some alien technology. No skill starts growing at the middle. Nobody teaches mathematics by starting with abstract concepts. We don't learn new spoken languages by studying literature from the get-go. So getting the pedagogics right is part of the success.
rthomas6 5y ago
Creating a CRUD website is supposed to be pretty fundamental, right? And how do I have individual user sessions with logins that show different content to different users? That seems, if not basic, fundamental to at least know how to do. Should I hand-type static HTML to do this? Is that what modern web developers typically do? Will learning HTML, CSS, and JS teach me how to use a backend? Which backend language should I pick? Should I use a database? Which one? Or should I use AWS? Is all I need HTML, CSS, and JS? PHP, is that a good backend starting point? That seems to be pretty fundamental, since over half of all websites use it. A LAMP stack, right? No? What about Python? Ruby? C? Rust? Arc? Elm? Should I use Node? If so, what is the typical Node setup? Should I use webassembly? That's a fundamental and new browser technology. How do I compress and minify code and images to be served? A makefile, right? That's the typical way to build things in my software world.

reynhaim 5y ago

https://fullstackopen.com/en/ https://fullstackopen.com/en/ This is a good resource that will walk you through the cutting edge web development technologies, starting from the very basics and progressing to the more complex matters in the end. Highly recommended.